Red Bull RB7 Renault

[forty-two]

What's that? They channel air around the sidepods with ending in a tunnel?
I can't see where exactly the exhaust is in this RB version. Either it's at the front or it's in the usual position and the gas is strengthened by airflow and then leads in the small open duct into the diffusor. Could this be Formular None's desired switch?

Sorry, I have to repost this, because I think there's going on something unusual. There seems to be a duct for the air stream around the lower sidepods (marked green). Maybe RBR really has an r-duct (beneath the "R" of "Red Bull", marked red) to change the exhaust gasses flow – maybe from the outer diffusor area to the inner one/starter hole ...

I reckon they might be playing with moving the exhausts forward. Only an idea, but I'd bet if anyone would come up with the idea it'd be Adrian Newey... he's a smart cookie!

[i70q7m7ghw]

What's that? They channel air around the sidepods with ending in a tunnel?
I can't see where exactly the exhaust is in this RB version. Either it's at the front or it's in the usual position and the gas is strengthened by airflow and then leads in the small open duct into the diffusor. Could this be Formular None's desired switch?

Sorry, I have to repost this, because I think there's going on something unusual. There seems to be a duct for the air stream around the lower sidepods (marked green). Maybe RBR really has an r-duct (beneath the "R" of "Red Bull", marked red) to change the exhaust gasses flow – maybe from the outer diffusor area to the inner one/starter hole ...

I reckon they might be playing with moving the exhausts forward. Only an idea, but I'd bet if anyone would come up with the idea it'd be Adrian Newey... he's a smart cookie!

Red Bull don't have forward exhausts, newey didn't think of it, get over it.

It is unlikely they will be able to adapt the car to fit them on any time soon, when you look at the renault it's a completely different design philosophy.

[Spencifer_Murphy]

Red Bull don't have forward exhausts, newey didn't think of it, get over it.

It is unlikely they will be able to adapt the car to fit them on any time soon, when you look at the renault it's a completely different design philosophy.

That last bit is key. Renault's FEE idea is an integral part of their aerodynamics (fairly redundent statement, I know, as all aero bit are designed to "fit" within the whole aerodynamic concept)

But just because it works for renault does not mean that simply re-routing the exhausts to the front (what I assume might be a relatively simple task) will provide any benefit at all. Practically everything that those exhaust gases will then interact with downstream will have to be redeigned in order to get the benefit.

[segedunum]

Red Bull don't have forward exhausts, newey didn't think of it, get over it.

No one is even sure if the idea is any good. Maintaining integral gas flow for the length of the car is a tricky proposition and what Renault and McLaren have in place looks like it will generate drag. This is a year where for KERS to actually work for you you probably can't compromise the aerodynamics of the car too much for pure downforce.

To me it looks as if Red Bull have cut things to the bone in order to maintain the downforce that they have whilst producing as little drag as possible. I doubt Newey and Red Bull would trade their sidepods for what Renault or McLaren have.

[ringo]

Red Bull don't have forward exhausts, newey didn't think of it, get over it.

It is unlikely they will be able to adapt the car to fit them on any time soon, when you look at the renault it's a completely different design philosophy.

That last bit is key. Renault's FEE idea is an integral part of their aerodynamics (fairly redundent statement, I know, as all aero bit are designed to "fit" within the whole aerodynamic concept)

But just because it works for renault does not mean that simply re-routing the exhausts to the front (what I assume might be a relatively simple task) will provide any benefit at all. Practically everything that those exhaust gases will then interact with downstream will have to be redeigned in order to get the benefit.

Not exactly. The concept will work as long as the barge boards and floor are modified, assuming it does work for renault.
It may take some wind tunnel work to get the right angles and other parameters correct, but i suspect similar amount of work to the f duct in terms of refining the floor system.

[ringo]

Red Bull don't have forward exhausts, newey didn't think of it, get over it.

No one is even sure if the idea is any good. Maintaining integral gas flow for the length of the car is a tricky proposition and what Renault and McLaren have in place looks like it will generate drag. This is a year where for KERS to actually work for you you probably can't compromise the aerodynamics of the car too much for pure downforce.

To me it looks as if Red Bull have cut things to the bone in order to maintain the downforce that they have whilst producing as little drag as possible. I doubt Newey and Red Bull would trade their sidepods for what Renault or McLaren have.

Yeah it could generate some drag and loss of engine power as the ground speed increases.
The efficiency of the top of the floor behind the side pod bulge and around the gearbox may be less as well. However i think the ground effect that renault may be generating trumps any of these draw backs.
When you have a whole lot of ground effect, you can afford to have less draggy wins. Which indirectly makes the ARW stronger too.

[ringo]

reason for this tight shape?
And why other teams can't seem to get their car like this?

the redbull's tank in very wide, in contrast to mclaren with a long fuel tank.
This allows them to bring the engine and it's manifolds away from the rear of the car.
The gear box is thus overly long, which also helps to house the pull rod suspension.
Redbull's long wheel base this year is artificial, it didn't need to be that long if they used a typical lenght gearbox. Using a long gear box gives them a massive aero benefit.



compare the blue and purple areas. The exhausts and engine prevent teams like mclaren from mimicking the tight packaging of redbull.
However i think there is a penalty to pay for a wider fuel tank.
Mclaren's new sidepods does not support a wide tank design, so there are many ways to approach flow to the rear.

[raymondu999]

Source?

[ringo]

There is no source. Just look on the car.

[raymondu999]

Yes, but I see an incredibly tight arse. I don't see the fuel tank, or the gearbox. Sadly my X-ray vision doesn't work on reproductions, such as videos or photos.

[Raptor22]

Look very closely at those pictures of Webber's car.

It proves conclusively that he is a Number 2 driver.... :0


got my coat.

Back to tech features of the RB-7.

[siskue2005]

very good work ringo, and please dont mind the trolls

[raymondu999]

Look, I'm not saying Ringo's theory is implausible, because it is plausible. However having said that, he, or we, cannot state that as fact. It will be purely speculation.

[ringo]

Yes, but I see an incredibly tight arse. I don't see the fuel tank, or the gearbox. Sadly my X-ray vision doesn't work on reproductions, such as videos or photos.

What if i lied to you and said i heard it from someone on the inside. Would that magically make the idea any more feasible?

Think for yourselves man!!!

The tank volumes are similar between the teams, the redbull exhuast manifolds are not close to the wheels like that of the Mp425, meaning the engine is closer to the driver. The only way the engine is closer to the drive is if the tank is shorter, thus having the same volume means there has to be an increase in width or height.

There are many ways to package the fuel. It's an underestimated part of the regulations.

A trapezoidal shape is probably being used, since it can be wider at the base with out affect the radiator width and angle much.

I see it as close to a fact, becuase the gearbox is long, and the engines are all basically the same size. Look in the lotus thread and have a look at the 2009 gearbox.

Since when anything in the car threads is close to being fact?

[mike]

KERS saves fuel.......
if you at the 2009 stats ferrari with kers consume the same amount of fuel as brawn gp and mclaren had equal fuel consumption as the renault engine, so with no refuelling and 2010 fuel saving strategies its reasonable to assume that the tank will be reduced in size