Mercedes AMG F1 W03

[ringo]

Seeing this now, it's quite possible it could be doing something that is far from what we thought. We need to see inside the nosecone now.
Remember the flap adjusters from 2009?
I think this system is like that.

[hardingfv32]

Remember the flap adjusters from 2009?

No, please expand.

Brian

[MuseF1]

What, you mean it's adjusting the angle of attack? Surely charlie wouldnt say thats legal?

[Owen.C93]

Still not satisfied, I want a picture of the carbon cover to see what it does with those tubes, as well as a look into the nose cone

[Lycoming]

I think what he means with regards to the flap adjuster is that it has the same effect in terms of slightly reducing downforce and drag.

In 2009 and I believe 2010, the driver was allowed to make a small adjustment to the front wing flap angle of attack from the cockpit, limited to 2 adjustments per lap, intended as an overtaking aid.

[Raptor22]

THe car has troubneed le getting heat into the tyres in race trim.
Look at Schumachers slow get away from the green light.
After the safety carhe was frantically trying to get heat into his front through weaving and he had the brake bias arearward to get the rears warmed up.
Its been usggesetd before that the wear rate on the W03's tyres is due to underheating.

If this is the case then the car has a very narrow operating temperature range for a given set up (camber, castor,)
Partly they could help the rears by getting hot exahust gas into the coke bottle. but the fronts they need to run more aggressive settings. I think they still finding their way here for race set up.

For Qualifying the FWDRS sheds drag but also load off the tyres, this allows them to run cooler so they need to find the ideal compromise between the qualifying set up and the race set up where FWDRS is not used as often.

[Mr.S]

The car obviously has nowhere near the downforce of a Mclaren or a Sauber,changing the exhaust would be a Decent Step. Maybe they can get some of the downforce.

But I dont know how they are going to improve the car mechanically. I dont. Can a lot be done???

Mercedes cars have been dogs mechanically over the years. This is no exception. Both Nico & Brawn are trying to put the blame on degradation to mask their utter failures.


People saw how bad the car was in wet & mixed conditions. The car just did not have good enough traction & mechanical grip with the wet & intermediates. Not good enough. Last year too Mercedes blamed the EBD & aerodynamics for their failures when they were mechanically MUCH MUCH worse. Same case this year & no-one is even admitting it. John Owen guy is JUST Not Good enough. Its time for Costa to step & do something.

[Maelstrom]

I've been a lurker for a while and finally decided to register and join in.

Schumacher and Brawn gave a feeling that they were on top of the degradation after Melbourne. After the Malaysian race Brawn appeared a bit taken aback that there was so much degradation. I have been reading about how Ferrari have made a radical car that they don't quite fully understand yet. But it seems to me that Mercedes don't fully understand their car either.

After winter testing and two races they should have gotten an idea about what the tyres were behaving like. But tey clearly haven't. During testing a lot of people were saying that Mercedes had high degradation but Mercedes said that there wasn't any such issue. Now the tune has changed. Either something has changed between testing and now or they were hiding the truth or the case is that this has come as a big shock to them too. Either way its sounds bad.

Seems to me that instead of investing so much time and effort on this genius F-duct they should have tried to follow McLaren and built a car that was good in all areas. It might not have been as fast but atleast it would have been a step in the right direction.

[prince]

Now that we are sure that W03 is facing tyre problems. Let everyone pitch in here and provide thier understandings and suggest how can W03 be improved in the area of tyres.

Problem Statement: Tyre degradation.
Perceived cause: Tyres are not getting into optimum range of operating temperature, which is causing heavy degradation. THE ISSUE IS NOT OVERHEATING.

My solution: As we can see, teams who have a better exhaust layout, in someway are helping the tyres to heat up by exhaust gases. The best way to put temperature in tyres is without causing tyre wear. By weaving on the circuit, tyres can be warmed up, but they degrade. The need of the hour is to put the temperature in without causing degradation. In current scenario, there is no way, I think they can resolve the issue by changing the setup. MGP has to copy the exhaust layout of Redbull or McLaren. By blowing the exhaust gases, they can warm up the tyres, without causing degradation. I don't see them fixing it before Spanish GP.

Any other ideas?

[tok-tokkie]

Still not satisfied, I want a picture of the carbon cover to see what it does with those tubes, as well as a look into the nose cone

I think the carbon cover was just to hide the pipes so they could not be photographed. Two small push in connectors at the top. However it is quite a complex shape with detail down the sides that conflicts with it being merely a photo shield. Alternatively there are two pieces- the bit at the top which is permanent (but stripped in the photo like the brake tanks) and the photo shield which is just the flat plate closest to the camera.

[agungn51]

Another DRS duct detail - note two tubes next to brake fluid reservoirs housing.[/quote]
That is what we really have been looking for. I see the knee jerk reaction post that it is 'Photoshopped'. Along with the picture re-posted by Crucial we can now see the ducting. No fluidic switch - air directly from rear wing is used to stall the front wing.
This gives them their qualifying speed but can not be used in the race = why there is such a difference in pace.
EDIT. Wait a second. Was there not an electrical connector for the camera in the center bottom on the picture where the shield with red dot was fitted. I will page back & check.
Here it is:


EDIT 2: Looks the same except the TV thing is not mounted. The CF plate in the front has a cover across the top partly hiding some of the stuff at the top. The brake tanks are also disconnected & hanging by their hoses.[/quote]




combining all pics here, it is now more logic , the duct is from beam wing connected via duct into front wing ( red arrow )

[siskue2005]

Remember the flap adjusters from 2009?

No, please expand.

Brian

It is not 'expand' that word means increase in size or volume
The word u should use is explain

[Med4224]

Remember the flap adjusters from 2009?

No, please expand.

Brian

It is not 'expand' that word means increase in size or volume
The word u should use is explain

not a grammar school here
but we "expand on the subject" is a valid idiom mate

[valachus]

Now that we are sure that W03 is facing tyre problems. Let everyone pitch in here and provide thier understandings and suggest how can W03 be improved in the area of tyres.

Problem Statement: Tyre degradation.
Perceived cause: Tyres are not getting into optimum range of operating temperature, which is causing heavy degradation. THE ISSUE IS NOT OVERHEATING.

My solution: As we can see, teams who have a better exhaust layout, in someway are helping the tyres to heat up by exhaust gases. The best way to put temperature in tyres is without causing tyre wear. By weaving on the circuit, tyres can be warmed up, but they degrade. The need of the hour is to put the temperature in without causing degradation. In current scenario, there is no way, I think they can resolve the issue by changing the setup. MGP has to copy the exhaust layout of Redbull or McLaren. By blowing the exhaust gases, they can warm up the tyres, without causing degradation. I don't see them fixing it before Spanish GP.

Any other ideas?

Better exhaust layouts not only improve heat buildup, but I suppose that they also maintain an uniform temperature around the surface of the tyre. That's, IMO, the only fundamental difference between some cars and the others.
Because, it matters not whether tyres are brought to working temperature if their surface is exposed to temperature transition cycles outside the control of the tyre operator [sensors give good readings for the tyre-ground contact patch, good readings for the inside of the rubber, uniform heating etc - but the surface is still exposed to the elements and the air flow].
What I'm thinking is that the tyre has a composite structure, i.e. in its working surface perhaps there is a lattice [that's the word, not "fishnet" as I used previously lol] pattern of shape memory rubber. Something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfWsuJDz ... re=related - just watch the first 15 seconds and you'll get the idea.
Such an un-orthodox tyre structure would generate a very counter-intuitive behavior we see so many complaints about, because, in absence of a hot gas cushion for the wheel, the shape transformation would manifest especially at low speeds [lower wheel revolution speed ->>> longer temperature difference exposure for the surface of the tyre heheh ->>> aggravated material fatigue]. Shape memory materials also can be customized for temperature triggers, transition speed etc., and the shape-change occurs with brutal force, since it's not a mechanical transformation, the transformations are nuclear/molecular.
If that's the case, it's a very clever trick by Pirelli. Not really in good taste, but a very clever trick nevertheless.

[bot6]

Schumacher said that the situation with the tyres was better last weekend than in Melbourne. dbwmhn's analysis of lap times seems to agree with this, at least in the dry.

However, Rosberg and Schumi, but especially Rosberg, had an awful time on the inters. This could be explained by two things:

1) Mercedes rain setup is not optimal (possibly a lower ride height than the others, as they were hoping for a mostly dry race), leading to sliding around in the wet, leading to degradation of the tyres

2) Mercedes have not understood how to use the wet and intermediate tyres properly.

Both of these possibilities being reinforced by the fact that Mercedes performed very little testing in wet conditions.