Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

[lio007]

I have another question about the gear box/ratios:

The technical regulation 9.6.1 says: "The number of forward gear ratios must be 8."
And the technical regulation 9.6.2 says:
"Each competitor must nominate the forward gear ratios (calculated from engine crankshaft to
drive shafts) to be employed within their gearbox. These nominations must be declared to the
FIA technical delegate at or before the first Event of the Championship. For 2014 only a
competitor may re-nominate these ratios once within the Championship season, in which case
the original nomination becomes immediately void. Ratio re-nominations must be declared as
a set."

I'm not an english native speaker, so maybe anybody can clear it up:
Does 9.6.1 mean, that the gear box has 8 gears or does it mean that the teams have to nominate 8 gear ratios at the beginning of the season and can choose one of this 8 ratios in each race?

So I'm a little bit confused about the terms 8 gears and 8 gear ratios...for me 8 gears and 8 gear ratios is not the same.

[Holm86]

Every gear has a ratio. It just means you have to choose a gear ratio for every gear before the season starts. After that you are allowed to change it once during the season. It does not mean that you have 8 different ratios to choose from at every race.

[lio007]

Every gear has a ratio. It just means you have to choose a gear ratio for every gear before the season starts. After that you are allowed to change it once during the season. It does not mean that you have 8 different ratios to choose from at every race.

ah...I see. thx

[beelsebob]

I'm actually seriously intrigued now. I see nothing in the rules banning having a tiny, fixed ratio gearbox (that you change each race) in the wheel hubs. The drive shafts are specified as being what connects the sprung to the unsprung mass, so it would not be included in the gear ratio at all. As the part is not specified, or part of the gearbox it wouldn't need to be made out of the specified steel in the rules, so you could in theory use something super light and strong like titanium for it. The only tricky thing would be making sure that first and second gear stayed in sane ranges to abide by the 100km/h at the start rules etc.

Another potential advantage of this is that if you hung the mini gearbox down from the wheel's axle, it would also lower the entry point for the drive shaft, allowing you to run a williams style tiny gearbox, without needing to run such a horrifically steep drive shaft angle.

To me it really looks like a very plausible idea for getting round the rules.

[Holm86]

Would the use of a in-wheel hub planetary gearing be allowed under the rules?
I could not find anything against it.
And as they are part of the unsprung mass and the drive shafts are considered the parts transferring torque from the sprung to the unsprung mass, they could be changed from circuit to circuit and allow for different total ratios.

9.5.1
A gearbox is defined as all the parts in the drive line which transfer torque from the power unit output shaft, as described in Article 5.3.2, to the drive shafts (the drive shafts being defined as those components which transfer drive torque from the sprung mass to the un-sprung mass).
It includes all components whose primary purpose is for the transmission of power or mechanical selection of gears, bearings associated with these components and the casing in which they are housed.

I have also looked through the regulations a few times now. And i don't see anything either. So i think there is potential in this. Good idea Matt!

[piast9]

To me it really looks like a very plausible idea for getting round the rules.

I am afraid that the drawbacks from this workaround wouldn't compensate for a potential gain. If I uderstand the theoretical power and torque curves of these engines that have been presented in this forum before, the 2014 engine doesn't need such close gear ratios we are used to to be effective. If that's true then the fixed 8 gears are more than enough.

[Tommy Cookers]

Would the use of a in-wheel hub planetary gearing be allowed under the rules?
I could not find anything against it.
And as they are part of the unsprung mass and the drive shafts are considered the parts transferring torque from the sprung to the unsprung mass, they could be changed from circuit to circuit and allow for different total ratios.

planetaty gearing could be normally locked ie direct drive 1:1 with no losses
then unlocked (passively by internal mechanical device ?) to automatically select race-suitable gearing-up at speed
then automatically revert to direct drive when speed reduces

maybe this is what is expected by those who suggested the rules as written ?

[rjsa]

Gearing on the unsprung side just makes no sense and I'd bet it is against the spirit of the rules. If someone manages to get it working it will be forbidden in the first opportunity.

THe rule was envisioned to keep the transmission fixed, period. That's artifically suffling the field for you, and that's the primary objective.

EDIT: Bold fixes it.

[beelsebob]

Would the use of a in-wheel hub planetary gearing be allowed under the rules?
I could not find anything against it.
And as they are part of the unsprung mass and the drive shafts are considered the parts transferring torque from the sprung to the unsprung mass, they could be changed from circuit to circuit and allow for different total ratios.

planetaty gearing could be normally locked ie direct drive 1:1 with no losses
then unlocked (passively by internal mechanical device ?) to automatically select race-suitable gearing-up at speed
then automatically revert to direct drive when speed reduces

maybe this is what is expected by those who suggested the rules as written ?

I don't think you need anything so complex. You have 8 gears, all you need to do is to design your gearbox to sit the top of 8th gear at a mid-rangeish top speed (something like 190mph). Then you only need fixed planetary gears for each circuit varying between 0.92x and 1.15x ratios to allow you to set your top speed in 8th gear anywhere between 175mph for Monaco and 220mph for Monza.

Gearing on the sprung side just makes no sense and I'd bet it is against the spirit of the rules. If someone manages to get it working it will be forbidden in the first opportunity.

I take it you mean unsprung, because all gearing is done on the sprung side just now. As we've covered many times before, there is no "spirit" of the rules. It's against the rules or it's not. Things don't get banned during a season unless there's a safety concern about them, so whoever were to do it would have it last a full season at least.

THe rule was envisioned to keep the transmission fixed, period. That's artifically suffling the field for you, and that's the primary objective.

What it was envisioned for, and what it says are two different things though.

[rjsa]

How exactly is one supposed to build planetary gearing observing the following:

10.5 Suspension Uprights :
10.5.1 The suspension uprights may only be made from UNS A92014, UNS A92618, UNS A97075 or
EN/AA 7022 aluminium alloys.
10.5.2 The loads from the suspension members and wheel bearings must individually and entirely be
carried by the suspension upright. Exceptionally up to three suspension members may be
connected together by titanium, aluminium alloy or steel components before their load is
passed into the upright.
10.5.3 Suspension uprights may not protrude beyond :
a) A vertical plane parallel to the inner face of the wheel rim and displaced from it by
120mm toward the car centre line.
b) A radius of 180mm from the centre of the wheel when viewed from the side.
The above measurements will be made with the wheel held in a vertical position.

[beelsebob]

How exactly is one supposed to build planetary gearing observing the following:

10.5 Suspension Uprights :
10.5.1 The suspension uprights may only be made from UNS A92014, UNS A92618, UNS A97075 or
EN/AA 7022 aluminium alloys.
10.5.2 The loads from the suspension members and wheel bearings must individually and entirely be
carried by the suspension upright. Exceptionally up to three suspension members may be
connected together by titanium, aluminium alloy or steel components before their load is
passed into the upright.
10.5.3 Suspension uprights may not protrude beyond :
a) A vertical plane parallel to the inner face of the wheel rim and displaced from it by
120mm toward the car centre line.
b) A radius of 180mm from the centre of the wheel when viewed from the side.
The above measurements will be made with the wheel held in a vertical position.

I don't understand how that's supposed to ban planetary gearing. You build a solid aluminium upright, you put the wheel bearings in it, you run a short axle through the wheel bearings that connects the wheel one end, and the centre of the planetary gearing system the other end. You connect the drive shaft to the other end of the planetary gearing system. What part of the above rules does that break?

[rjsa]

How exactly is one supposed to build planetary gearing observing the following:

10.5 Suspension Uprights :
10.5.1 The suspension uprights may only be made from UNS A92014, UNS A92618, UNS A97075 or
EN/AA 7022 aluminium alloys.
10.5.2 The loads from the suspension members and wheel bearings must individually and entirely be
carried by the suspension upright. Exceptionally up to three suspension members may be
connected together by titanium, aluminium alloy or steel components before their load is
passed into the upright.
10.5.3 Suspension uprights may not protrude beyond :
a) A vertical plane parallel to the inner face of the wheel rim and displaced from it by
120mm toward the car centre line.
b) A radius of 180mm from the centre of the wheel when viewed from the side.
The above measurements will be made with the wheel held in a vertical position.

I don't understand how that's supposed to ban planetary gearing. You build a solid aluminium upright, you put the wheel bearings in it, you run a short axle through the wheel bearings that connects the wheel one end, and the centre of the planetary gearing system the other end. You connect the drive shaft to the other end of the planetary gearing system. What part of the above rules does that break?

My understaning would be that the elpitical system would have to be charactorized of being part either of the wheel, the brakes or the upright. Wheels and brakes are pretty well regulated.

If it is to be labelled upright, it has to comply to those rules, and you just can't buld it out of Al.

[beelsebob]

My understaning would be that the elpitical system would have to be charactorized of being part either of the wheel, the brakes or the upright. Wheels and brakes are pretty well regulated.

Where in the rules does it say that it has to be characterised as anything at all?

[rjsa]

You're right. Nothing in the rules clearly block the idea, so it could be legal.

BUT, would it be practical? There still are restricions on volume of the upright that I guess would have to be followed, along with the added complexity and weight.

[Richard]

It would have to be considered part of the wheel bearing? A simple substitution of cogs for ball bearings.

Of course I mean simple in terms of wordplay, I couldn't imagine that working in a practical way.