Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
beelsebob
beelsebob
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Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

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richard_leeds wrote:It would have to be considered part of the wheel bearing? A simple substitution of cogs for ball bearings.

Of course I mean simple in terms of wordplay, I couldn't imagine that working in a practical way.
I don't think it would be considered as any of the named parts in the regulations. The regulations actually in general don't name parts, they simply say "the part in this area" or "the part connecting these other parts". There's a few exceptions to this, but not everything on a car has a name is the bottom line.

As the regulations do not mention the proposed part at all (either by name or by area, or by how it connects things), they don't give it a name, and don't enforce any rules on it.

Whether it would be useful or not, I don't know, to me it sure looks like a neat idea, and yeh, by the looks of it, the rules don't ban it.

I'm absolutely certain that some team members will read this forum (even if they only lurk), so we ought to get a good indication of whether it's a good idea or not simply by whether those engineers communicate the idea up the chain, or to their colleagues, and then by whether the teams implement it or a variant on it.

Richard
Richard
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Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

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I think you're logic might be slightly flawed. Correlation is not causation.

I predict they're have black rubber things around the wheels. Lo! They have. They must have read it on here.

Having said that, didn't manchild predict Ferrari's nose vent many years ago?

beelsebob
beelsebob
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Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

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richard_leeds wrote:I think you're logic might be slightly flawed.

I predict they're have black rubber things around the wheels. Lo! They have. They must have read it on here.
Well no, I was not trying to imply that they would have got the idea from here, only that if it's a good idea it will get implemented.

Whether they had the idea of they got the idea from here, a good idea will end up on the car... Thus, we will get an indication of whether it's a good idea or not (but not whether we thought of it before the teams, which I highly doubt).

rgkma
rgkma
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Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

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Sorry if this has been asked&answered before. But now we hearing about the torque maps RBR (most prob all Renault engine teams) been using, will they be able to use them next year?

beelsebob
beelsebob
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Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

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rgkma wrote:Sorry if this has been asked&answered before. But now we hearing about the torque maps RBR (most prob all Renault engine teams) been using, will they be able to use them next year?
No, because they won't be using the same engines next year, so the engine maps will all be new. It's actually less about whether RBR can use the same ones, and more about whether the other teams can produce new ones that are better than their current ones.

hecti
hecti
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Location: Montreal, QC

Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

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A bit off topic from what you guys have been talking about, but I was starting to design a 2014 car and came across article 3 (first paragraph) where it states " For illustrations refer to drawings 1A-17A in the Appendix to the Technical Regulations. " That would mean that there are ~17 drawings in an appendix, however, the appendix "Appendix 1 - Drawings" only has 7 drawings or ~12 individual details (however you want to look at it). Is there an appendix missing, or is there a massive typo? I can deal with reading the paragraphs and figuring out the dimensions from there, but it would be nice to have a more "visual" aid.

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MacX
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Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

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Please explain to me about the new regulations is the 2014 season. what important? aerodynamics is more important? Or a new engine? Here is argued that the aerodynamics will continue important than a new engine.
ivanF1 ‏@ivanF1
#F1 Downforce decrease as new 2014 rules consequences will make aerodynamics even more important

Ogami musashi
Ogami musashi
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Joined: 13 Jun 2007, 22:57

Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

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MacX wrote:Please explain to me about the new regulations is the 2014 season. what important? aerodynamics is more important? Or a new engine? Here is argued that the aerodynamics will continue important than a new engine.
ivanF1 ‏@ivanF1
#F1 Downforce decrease as new 2014 rules consequences will make aerodynamics even more important
Because of the two main characteristics of downforce (I.E: It increases with speed+ it is a virtual weight), it is the differentiator that has the best cost/results ratio.

Each time you decrease downforce, you make any clawing back of downforce a huge advantage.

When you let downforce relatively free, gains in downforce start to become smaller and the ratio of cost/results start to decrease hence there's a limit in which finding more downforce is really relevant.

But the nature of downforce will always make it the most efficient way of being competitive and when you don't search for more downforce, you search for more consistent downforce (under braking, acclerating, riding kerbs etc...) ...

Untill you completely ban it, i reckon it will always be the main parameter.

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MacX
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Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

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It's clear. Then it means that no matter how powerful the engine is in 2014. General, aerodynamics, that will create more than Down Force? And one more question then is the advantage of Plant teams before the rest of the teams-clients in 2014?

Ogami musashi
Ogami musashi
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Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

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Engine performance/reliability is performance differenciator, but it costs far more to gain an advantage due to engine than downforce.

This is why teams run wind tunnels 24h/7d.

That being said in 2014, engine importance will be necessary greater than now...But since some aerodynamics regulations were aimed at cutting downforce, downforce work will be even more important.


There's no easy solution to that. If you ban downforce for example..you end up with formula fords on steroids.

beelsebob
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Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

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Ogami musashi wrote:Engine performance/reliability is performance differenciator, but it costs far more to gain an advantage due to engine than downforce.

This is why teams run wind tunnels 24h/7d.
No, the reason they do that is because the engines are homologated. Aero these days is into the realms of extreme deminishing returns. The engines, once freed up will become an enormous research centre.

Ogami musashi
Ogami musashi
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Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

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beelsebob wrote: No, the reason they do that is because the engines are homologated. Aero these days is into the realms of extreme deminishing returns. The engines, once freed up will become an enormous research centre.
Even when engines were not homologated aeros dominated (just check team principals moaning about aeros back in 2004).

You have to see the budget for 2006. Engine were the most expensive department, but areodynamics were already 24/7.

And each season deletation of aero surface like we had during the last 10 years make aerodynamics even more important.

Add to this a modern track has more turns length than straight line length and you have it.

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SectorOne
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Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

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But back in the V10 days the engine had more of an impact. Head even said they could afford to run more downforce because the engine would still hit the top speed that other teams made.

The BMW engines (once not so hardcore) were a tremendous benefit to Williams.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

Ogami musashi
Ogami musashi
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Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

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SectorOne wrote:But back in the V10 days the engine had more of an impact. Head even said they could afford to run more downforce because the engine would still hit the top speed that other teams made.

The BMW engines (once not so hardcore) were a tremendous benefit to Williams.
I never said that the engine was of no importance, i just said that i think the downforce in modern F1 is the parameter with the best cost/results ratio.

And what you say is a testimony to that argument..they have more power...just to run more downforce. If downforce wasn't a prime importance, they would just run with faster straight line speed.

But you just have to look at the Group C history. When the 3.5L sports came they were slower on straight line (and actually had lower acceleration out of some corners) but still lapped several seconds faster than C1 group C cars.

Why? because they had about twice the downforce for a lower weight.

tony77g
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Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

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Image

The System ERS of the next F1 engines of 2014.
You can download the animation on the site

Bye!