2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[AR3-GP]

Could Red Bulls pit light system have been hacked? All seems very odd.

[organic]

I’m sure they will bounce back in Jeddah and then no one will talk about Bahrain. Ferrari had a bad day in Australia. No one is talking about that now.

The problems that caused Bahrain to be so bad will be present at other circuits too. Of course Jeddah will be fine because characteristics are so different.

[Watto]

Max and his world of fans are overreacting.
One bad race and he came 6th? Not exactly a bad result. This should not be an emergency.
If it were Hamilton and his manager getting miserable and throwing a fit, he would be told to shutup and drive the car and apologize to F1 and the FIA.
I think this stroppiness is coming across rather entitled from Max and his fans. The world is not gonna end because a car that won 7 days ago convincingly came 6th this week because the conditions never suited it.
Redbull is the best place for Max to be right now. He has his the team eating out of his hand , a contractural #2 driver and car tailored for him every year. Going to another team without that bubble of dedicated and loyal people will make things worse for him.
The RB21 can be fixed and not everything is the car or team's fault. The driver who can "win with a tractor" couldnt win with one today. So he's also partly responsible for the setup direction that he took and not working the magic like his fans thinks he can.
He's gonna pole in Jeddah with the right setup and all will be right with the world again. RB21 just needs the right build up similar to what they did Suzuka and it's fast again.

Imola will be interesting to see what kinda difference it makes.

I do think with Red Bulls issues to be as close to Lando as he is, Red Bull would have taken it to this point I though there was a real danger that by now they could have had a 30-40 point lead over Max. It that makes it more tricky - puts pressure on good results every week.

More the issue to me its, if Red Bulls tools, its CFD and wind tunnel can remedy the issues knowing them and having a solution that works can be 2 very different things. . 2 weeks in a row Max has had to make a last minute change to the car for qualifying last week it worked at got Max pole this week they said it was a step in the wrong direction. The correlation issues are my concern. If the update works and it brings them close to McLaren I think Max (and even with Mercedes and Ferrari in the pic) I would rate Max a very strong chance.

[ringo]

Any car that can win Suzuka in the dry vs 2 McLarens is fast. It's just that the darn car is like a Rubik's puzzle. The performance is in there somewhere and the team's base setup seems to be for ideal conditions to match with the correlation.
The sporting director, simulation engineers and aero guys probably should shoulder the most blame. Sporting director for the pit light issues, the tyre selecton. Sim guys for the base setup and Aero guys for the development and design philosophy.
The organization needs a shake up. Max doesnt take any blame really, but makes you wonder what kind of feedback does he give and was Newey the only one that could translate what max wants from the car all these years.

[AR3-GP]

Erik van Haren:

“In Japan, the pit stop was too slow by Red Bull standards.

They used the excuse that two important mechanics, twin brothers, had returned home before the race for family reasons.

But they were back in Bahrain.
At the first stop, the lights didn't work and stayed red for too long:
"But my second stop was even worse," Verstappen resigns.

[pantherxxx]

Jeddah is full of fast corners, so I expect Red Bull to be stronger there.

[euv2]

"The problems are known," Horner told RacingNews365, among others. "The solutions we see in our tools don't match the circuit. We have to find out. Why don't our tools match the circuit? And if you have to deal with such a problem, you have to undo it, of course. We have a strong technical team that has built some great cars over the last few years and I am confident that they will get to the bottom of this issue. Our tools simply don't match the track. Then you get to the point where you're turning two different watches."

Horner agrees that this problem was also reflected in 2024. "It's the same. The wind tunnel has sent us in a direction that doesn't show the same on the track. Then you end up with a mishmash between what your tools tell you and what the track data shows. Now we collect data on the track and that should lead to a solution. You have to understand your weaknesses. The problem is also that we are at the end of a set of regulations. Profit margins are marginal. We see shortcomings in our current wind tunnel'

https://racingnews365.nl/horner-verklaa ... l-probleem

Doesn't sound too promising sadly, that wind tunnel is a serious problem now. The poor correlation between WindTunnel and simulation tools has been very obvious, WT problems can be excused but the simulator itself they should have done a better job fixing ever since it showed problem in 23 with the kerbs and 24 with balance. MK wasted so much time by not giving them site permission but RBR should have been more proactive in replacing the wind tunnel. 2026 mid-season for a new wind tunnel but hey at least it will be state of the art then.

[Sergej]

Jeddah will be better for me too. However, the problem is not just a bad race in Bahrain, the problem is when you look at the big picture: they have a car that for over one year has not been matching the simulation tools, they almost never hit the track with a correct setup, they have pitstop problems, key personnel people left, not to talk about next year engine....it really feels like a team which needs a reconstruction. They will need a full miracle in Imola to turn this championship around.

[Cs98]

I think Horner is feeling the pressure. He has consistently underplayed the extent of their problems since the middle of last year, yet the issues have only gotten worse and spread to new areas. He has been late on the ball with key strategic projects like the wind tunnel and simulation tools. They’ve lost several key people and now the threat of Verstappen leaving would put the nail in the coffin on a spiral to mediocrity. Add the personal scandal last year, it just feels like man who is acting more to save his own skin by ignoring the gravity of the situation as opposed to one who is sober about it. Does he really have the credibility and personal capital to turn this around? GP for TP?

[venkyhere]

"The problems are known," Horner told RacingNews365, among others. "The solutions we see in our tools don't match the circuit. We have to find out. Why don't our tools match the circuit? And if you have to deal with such a problem, you have to undo it, of course. We have a strong technical team that has built some great cars over the last few years and I am confident that they will get to the bottom of this issue. Our tools simply don't match the track. Then you get to the point where you're turning two different watches."

Horner agrees that this problem was also reflected in 2024. "It's the same. The wind tunnel has sent us in a direction that doesn't show the same on the track. Then you end up with a mishmash between what your tools tell you and what the track data shows. Now we collect data on the track and that should lead to a solution. You have to understand your weaknesses. The problem is also that we are at the end of a set of regulations. Profit margins are marginal. We see shortcomings in our current wind tunnel'

https://racingnews365.nl/horner-verklaa ... l-probleem

Doesn't sound too promising sadly, that wind tunnel is a serious problem now. The poor correlation between WindTunnel and simulation tools has been very obvious, WT problems can be excused but the simulator itself they should have done a better job fixing ever since it showed problem in 23 with the kerbs and 24 with balance. MK wasted so much time by not giving them site permission but RBR should have been more proactive in replacing the wind tunnel. 2026 mid-season for a new wind tunnel but hey at least it will be state of the art then.

Bring in James Allison, the savior Mercedes finally turned to, to get them out of the exact same situation.
"No correlation" => developmental upgrade = 'random parts with different shape, can/cannot work'.

It's like having a highly precise 4 decimal place weighing machine, but with poor accuracy due to calibration being off kilter. 1kg will show up as 0.7895kg. A machine which shows 0.95 or 1.05 (less precise) is better, and that's what their 'FP session track data inspired 'overnight band aid work' is doing. Other teams are having tools showing 0.9950 or 1.0050 even before they arrive on track.

[collindsilva]

"The problems are known," Horner told RacingNews365, among others. "The solutions we see in our tools don't match the circuit. We have to find out. Why don't our tools match the circuit? And if you have to deal with such a problem, you have to undo it, of course. We have a strong technical team that has built some great cars over the last few years and I am confident that they will get to the bottom of this issue. Our tools simply don't match the track. Then you get to the point where you're turning two different watches."

Horner agrees that this problem was also reflected in 2024. "It's the same. The wind tunnel has sent us in a direction that doesn't show the same on the track. Then you end up with a mishmash between what your tools tell you and what the track data shows. Now we collect data on the track and that should lead to a solution. You have to understand your weaknesses. The problem is also that we are at the end of a set of regulations. Profit margins are marginal. We see shortcomings in our current wind tunnel'

https://racingnews365.nl/horner-verklaa ... l-probleem

Doesn't sound too promising sadly, that wind tunnel is a serious problem now. The poor correlation between WindTunnel and simulation tools has been very obvious, WT problems can be excused but the simulator itself they should have done a better job fixing ever since it showed problem in 23 with the kerbs and 24 with balance. MK wasted so much time by not giving them site permission but RBR should have been more proactive in replacing the wind tunnel. 2026 mid-season for a new wind tunnel but hey at least it will be state of the art then.

Bring in James Allison, the savior Mercedes finally turned to, to get them out of the exact same situation.
"No correlation" => developmental upgrade = 'random parts with different shape, can/cannot work'.

It's like having a highly precise 4 decimal place weighing machine, but with poor accuracy due to calibration being off kilter. 1kg will show up as 0.7895kg. A machine which shows 0.95 or 1.05 (less precise) is better, and that's what their 'FP session track data inspired 'overnight band aid work' is doing. Other teams are having tools showing 0.9950 or 1.0050 even before they arrive on track.

AMR says hi

[basti313]

Imola will be interesting to see what kinda difference it makes.

I do think with Red Bulls issues to be as close to Lando as he is, Red Bull would have taken it to this point I though there was a real danger that by now they could have had a 30-40 point lead over Max. It that makes it more tricky - puts pressure on good results every week.

More the issue to me its, if Red Bulls tools, its CFD and wind tunnel can remedy the issues knowing them and having a solution that works can be 2 very different things. ....

I think so too on the points. It is a miracle in this F1 season, that Norris and/or Piastri are not 30 points away already.
This is the straw...if the Imola update works, this may be an epic season. Especially with McLaren not deciding for a Nr1.

But the point on the tools is making this less likely. If they do not have any correlation, there will not be substantial improvement.

[Quantum]

Could Red Bulls pit light system have been hacked? All seems very odd.

And nefarious conspiracy seems more plausible?

[Vettel165]

Imola will be interesting to see what kinda difference it makes.

I do think with Red Bulls issues to be as close to Lando as he is, Red Bull would have taken it to this point I though there was a real danger that by now they could have had a 30-40 point lead over Max. It that makes it more tricky - puts pressure on good results every week.

More the issue to me its, if Red Bulls tools, its CFD and wind tunnel can remedy the issues knowing them and having a solution that works can be 2 very different things. ....

I think so too on the points. It is a miracle in this F1 season, that Norris and/or Piastri are not 30 points away already.
This is the straw...if the Imola update works, this may be an epic season. Especially with McLaren not deciding for a Nr1.

But the point on the tools is making this less likely. If they do not have any correlation, there will not be substantial improvement.

Agree the season is very long, more than 500 points are still there for the taking. If we somehow manage to be within 30-40 points until Barcelona and the TD works in our favour+ working updates in Imola we have a small chance for the title. If not we know what will see, a new champion.

[Gillian]

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