Would a covered cockpit have helped Bianchi ?

[Jolle]

aside from getting caught in fencing like in the States, most (near) fatal accidents seem to be blows to the head. Surtees, Wilson and (almost) Massa were the direct result of having no form of deflection. Bianchi and De Villota were killed by hitting objects that shouldn't be near a racing car.

A halo solution like Mercedes rendered could be integrated into the chassis with a quick release system just like the headrests (but a little more sturdy). It would just take seconds, and when a driver is unconscious after a big crash, it will take at lease minutes to extract him out of the car with the back supported chair anyway. The last time in F1 this was necessary, it was for Massa, because he was struck in the head.... the last time a driver was upside down and on fire was in the 80-ies at least.

I used to have a friend that thought seat-belts were unsafe, because he knew someone that was thrown from a car and that had saved him.

Mercedes has designed their solution to go up, a system where you (after you pull out a pin) slides off forward, just 5 cm before it detaches, could be a simple solution.

No real life solution will help crashing into a truck at high speed or a sharp thin blade like De Villota.

[proteus]

Dont know if anyone proposed this jet, but what about a gas container with nozzle mounted between the area of steering wheel and radio antena. Gas under high pressure controlled by the sensor which would detect if an object is flying towards the driver. when the object is detected the sensor would release the pressure to deflect the object. If the trucks and cars can be flipped by this method, why not deflecting the debris? sure, there should be a hell of a sensor there with quick reflexes but military can detect and act against shots which travel with 800+ kmh.

[Manoah2u]

Dont know if anyone proposed this jet, but what about a gas container with nozzle mounted between the area of steering wheel and radio antena. Gas under high pressure controlled by the sensor which would detect if an object is flying towards the driver. when the object is detected the sensor would release the pressure to deflect the object. If the trucks and cars can be flipped by this method, why not deflecting the debris? sure, there should be a hell of a sensor there with quick reflexes but military can detect and act against shots which travel with 800+ kmh.

let's just mount guns on the roll hoop while at it. and throw some spikes at the back. a jetblaster to overtake easier.
let's just call it mario kart. throw some bonus points on the track which will give you a free tire change.

[proteus]

Sorry, i removed my post. It was ofensive and inapropriate. I got carried away, but that shouldnt happen no matter what.

[bdr529]

A few more articles regarding some of the pro's /con's,

Closed cockpits - Not a simple solution
http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/135 ... e-solution

How easy is it to introduce closed cockpits to F1?
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/arti ... its-to-f1/

[Manoah2u]

the problem in F1 is there is no motivation for a solution from the FIA's side.

I've followed F1 for quite some time and to be very honest, it's a worrying time of late. Becuase any experienced F1 follower can see the similarity in FIA stance back in the Senna days. The FIA did not act to anything really but selfrighteousness and selfglorification paired with their political endeavours. Balestre ring a bell? We have a frenchy at the helm again with the same frontname, Jean. Back then, there were many dangers and some were responded to and some did not. There have been various pleas for action but to no prevail, untill finally, Senna was big enough of a 'disaster' to happen to F1 to see something happen. It was sad enough that a great driver like Ratzenberg wasn't even enough, nor a neal-fatal crash of Barrichello that same weekend. Fortunately for safety, Senna was too big a name to 'put aside'.

The sad thing is, it's repeat mode. We've lost Bianchi thanks to FIA incompetance. Lost DeVillota to that, too. Incompetence not from the absolute neccesity of a canopy of sorts, but the incompetance and unwillingness to act accordingly, due to political reasons. Money. Corruption. The anti-stall device for example. Having a race go with a hurricane around the corner at dawn in extreme weather. Having exploding tires.

It is all just pushed aside. Some teen photoshopper or 3DS nerd is thrown a bone to hastly invent somthing to portray the idea that they're actually working on it to improve. Then it loses traction and attention and fades back into the background. Engines that must last too long. Too high costs.

The FIA is in place to control motor racing, to make it feasable and safe. They're failing hard in that department.
The way things are going now, we're going to have a F1 driver death in some shocking manner sooner or later. The question is; will it be somebody politically not impacting enough, like a Felipe Nasr or Guiterrez, or is it going to continue untill somebody the likes of Hamilton, Alonso or Vettel has to kill themselves?

There are dozens of safety measures to prevent things from happening that happened to Bianchi. But none of them are taken into effect. Drivers get fined and penalised for engine changes, or having a wrong tire on their wheels. But exploding tires at 300kph, rubber fireworks at silverstone just a couple of years ago from the same manufacturer? nothing. nothing at all.

again, the canopy is not the solution. it's all the politics around it and around F1 that leads to problems today.

[turbof1]

Manoah, it's wrong to put this down to a "Frenchy". Like all French people act only out of their own self interests... . Second I feel it's completely wrong to shove the de Villota accident in the shoes of the FIA since it happened on a filming day and not on an official sanctioned event!

Best of all is that you broke down their work and effort, but failed to suggest what you think would be a better solution.

Fact of the matter is: protecting the head of a driver in a single seater is very difficult. You can probably find a working solution for big objects like tyres, but smaller things like a spring will be near impossible to block without compromising vision.

A closed cockpit on the other hand brings a lot of safety issues with it. I still think it's the best way to go, but research should be dedicated to figuring out a failsafe system to get the driver out. The fia is not alone; the teams can help with this!

[Andres125sx]

Second I feel it's completely wrong to shove the de Villota accident in the shoes of the FIA since it happened on a filming day and not on an official sanctioned event!

What does that change? The car is the same

Fact of the matter is: protecting the head of a driver in a single seater is very difficult.

[...]

A closed cockpit on the other hand brings a lot of safety issues with it. I still think it's the best way to go, but research should be dedicated to figuring out a failsafe system to get the driver out.

I´m not sure what safety issues are you refering to... Do LMP1 cars have safety issues?



Any reason this can´t be used in F1? Any reason this is safe for LMP1 but wouldn´t be for F1?

[ChrisF1]

Maybe the fact the driver would lose 50% of their vision in that example

[turbof1]

Second I feel it's completely wrong to shove the de Villota accident in the shoes of the FIA since it happened on a filming day and not on an official sanctioned event!

What does that change? The car is the same

Fact of the matter is: protecting the head of a driver in a single seater is very difficult.

[...]

A closed cockpit on the other hand brings a lot of safety issues with it. I still think it's the best way to go, but research should be dedicated to figuring out a failsafe system to get the driver out.

I´m not sure what safety issues are you refering to... Do LMP1 cars have safety issues?

http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/ ... 4244_m.jpg

Any reason this can´t be used in F1? Any reason this is safe for LMP1 but wouldn´t be for F1?

http://www.auto123.com/ArtImages/156115/monocoque-2.jpg

The car and safety measures don't have to be the same during filming days. Basically they can do whatever they want during a filming day, except exceeding a certain amount of kilometres and have to run show tyres. All else is open. The FIA stands, excluding the exception, completely outside of this. Would you think that the fia would have allowed to have the car running near the truck? I don't think so. Would the fia have allowed the car run underneath a jumping truck? Nope. Fact of matter is: it's outside their control.

About the cockpit: the issue is that you are dealing with a single seater car with a much narrower cockpit. It's more difficult to have enough safety measures to keep the driver safe at an impact, yet also allow systems in the exact same position to allow a quick escape. for instance a driver in lmp would simply open his door when the car is upside down. In F1 that's not possible.

You are in other words comparing apples with oranges.

[FW17]

Cockpit safety LMP style can be quickly implemented by simply instituting a larger cockpit section. There is no reason to be stuck for 21 years with same size since 1994.

Larger size will not change cause any issues for anyone.

Vision in LMP car are not 50℅ of f1 on top of that LMP drivers sit on one side rather than centre.

[theblackangus]

Cockpit safety LMP style can be quickly implemented by simply instituting a larger cockpit section. There is no reason to be stuck for 21 years with same size since 1994.

Larger size will not change cause any issues for anyone.

Vision in LMP car are not 50℅ of f1 on top of that LMP drivers sit on one side rather than centre.

But that is part of the over all issue everyone has isn't it?
If you make the cockpit LMP sized (like they did with the delta wing) then you really have an LMP car with open front and rear wheels, I think the only question is can we make it safe w/o resorting to this.
I believe many are hesitant to see F1 become so close to LMP.

[mrluke]

F1 should have been leading the way, but because they have chosen to stagnate on the same design for 20 years, lmp1 is now leading the way for fastest circuit cars so yes f1 is going to have to look more like lmp1 because that is the future of fast circuit racing cars. Look at the red bull x1 concept that is now several years old, this is where f1 is going to be in 20 years.

All the hand wringing and putting it off is not achieving anything. If you want to be at the forefront of technology then you have to move with it. F1 risks becoming an irrelevant retro series. Its a shame the fia have such a monopoly, of lmp1 started doing some sprint races f1 would really suffer from the competition.

Just look how any teams are pushing to get into lmp1 then look at the last 5 teams to join f1 and I mean with a new team not buying a successful outfit.

[FW17]

It will leave still look skiner than this. LMP cockpit is meant for 2 people, f1 can have the same arrangement with it being slightly narrower.

[Andres125sx]

The car and safety measures don't have to be the same during filming days. Basically they can do whatever they want during a filming day, except exceeding a certain amount of kilometres and have to run show tyres. All else is open. The FIA stands, excluding the exception, completely outside of this. Would you think that the fia would have allowed to have the car running near the truck? I don't think so. Would the fia have allowed the car run underneath a jumping truck? Nope. Fact of matter is: it's outside their control.

Yes agree about this, I was refering to the car, with a closed cockpit, even if it was a filming day, she´d be alive.

About the cockpit: the issue is that you are dealing with a single seater car with a much narrower cockpit. It's more difficult to have enough safety measures to keep the driver safe at an impact, yet also allow systems in the exact same position to allow a quick escape. for instance a driver in lmp would simply open his door when the car is upside down. In F1 that's not possible.

You are in other words comparing apples with oranges.

Why?

Top series of single seater cars... what´s so different to make it apples to oranges?

Any reason the same cockpit (even if it´s narrower) couldn´t be opened exactly the same way they do in lmp1?


About the narrower argument, I get what you mean and agree, but the closed cockpit purpose is not being part of the... sorry don´t know the term in english, the structure wich must absorb part of the energy of a crash. Its purpose would be deflecting any part, piece or whatever wich would impact driver´s helmet. For that purpose it doesn´t matter if it´s narrow and the canopy is close to the helmet.