2016 F1 Spanish Grand Prix

[Phil]

Q2 - > Q3 improvement:
Ricciardo - 0,9
Verstappen - 0,09
Hamilton - 0,159

FP3 > Q3 Improvement:
Hamilton - 1.2sec
Verstappen - 0.7sec
Vettel - +0.1sec


Something is terribly wrong.
Vettel should be able to have at least 0.7sec faster lap in Q3 than he had now. And that's already assuming that in FP3 Ferrari were pushing slightly more than RB which is not necessarily true.

Why are you assuming everyone was pushing equally in FP3? You know, the P standing for practice.... as such, fastest times are really of relevance. Long runs pace is more important as a reference and there Ferrari isnt (wasnt) that bad.

But given that most teams improved while Ferrari didnt, i do assume it has something to do with track temperature and/or setup...

[godlameroso]

Maybe saving tires? Tomorrow it was supposed to be a bit cloudy but it's looking like more of the same for tomorrow, the interesting thing is that the barometric pressure is expected to rise tomorrow, and that means wind, lots of wind, it's predicted to be heading south-ish, which would give drivers tail/cross wind coming down the main straight, a head wind coming out of 3, and a tail wind up to turn 8 with a cross wind coming out of 9 which could cause oversteer, turn 12 is going to be a ripe pain in the ass because it goes from head wind to cross wind as well. 16 will have a tail wind through the apex.

[Sonador]

Q2 - > Q3 improvement:
Ricciardo - 0,9
Verstappen - 0,09
Hamilton - 0,159
A miracle... Mercedes would be writing letters already .

"Vettel unsure of why Ferrari weren't quick" Excuse me, what "Ferrari"? You were behind your 37 year old barely breathing team-mate. Slow or not you should have been fourth at worst. At least they can't blame it on Mercedes having some magical engine mode. I'm so glad there's some competition even though it's a team of marketing jokes.

Why do you "look" at things very black and white?

There is also a grey area.....

You could see that Ferrari were struggling in P3 in q1, in q2 and in q3.
Vettel made a remark that he was partly responsible because he did a setup change.
They were struggling hence the setup change, it did not work.
It has nothing to do with having a 37year old "barely breathing" teammate ....

The quote "Vettell unsure of why Ferrari weren't quick" is just click baite ....

[Silent Storm]

Still he was quite quick all weekend long until Qualifying. While all others gained speed, they both rather lost. I haven't seen his lap so I don't know where and how he lost the time on Kimi. if it was over the whole lap or due to a mistake.
Usually Vettel has an advantage of 2 - 3 tenths on Kimi. That would have at least brought him roughly to the level of the Red Bulls.
Anyway, the gap is so huge that it leaves you to wonder how they fu**ed up so completely.
Wind wasn't particularly strong either so we can probably rule out excessive wind sensitivity of the Ferrari.
I simply hope they are not back to correlation problems with their Aero.

I don't think Vettel is 2-3 tenths quicker than Kimi this season. Kimi has upped his game, in P1 where he made a mistake on his fast lap but the earlier one was quicker than Seb and in P3 where he hit traffic and lost time, but the first 2 sectors were a match to Seb though. P2 he was quick when both drivers had a clean run. Plus Kimi usually is fast around this track like he is in Bahrain. I remember in 2014 how he out qualified Fernando in Spain and Bahrain even though he was struggling with front end grip, sliding around and locking up his tyres. He may not be at his peak but noway can you say that Seb could have been faster today when Kimi had a big moment in his first run in Q3 and was still ahead of Seb who had a clean run.

[aral]

I wouldn't call it well done by Verstappen. On a different track 4 tenths mean 2-5 places difference.
And that is pretty much how much faster Ricciardo was to Kvyat all the time.

And don't forget Vandoorne was as quick as Button in the one race he had.

To me Verstappen does not have the same one lap raw pace as Sainz, or Ricciardo.
Where he shines is on raceday, so i am curious about tommorow/rest of the season.

Barcelona is very very setup sensitive, up until the final moments of q3 Verstappen was quicker.
But i think that final lap was just extra ordinary from Ricciardo, he knew it himself too.
Same goes for Hamilton, a track where he often "struggles he did great!

There is great potential in Verstappen, but i think it is to soon for him (the switch from Toro Rosso).....[/quote]

I think that you have to look at it with a different perspective. Max has just been placed in the car and has had to learn new steering wheel functions, different handling etc, yet he is able to match and better Daniel. For a 18 yo to be able to do that is something. look at Kvyat, he has ability, yet has not been able to even match Sainz who is slower normally than Max. Kvyat had also the benefit of knowing the team and the car.
It was noticeable that Daniel was not grinning any more and was obviously concerned at the challenge from his new teammate. Give Max a couple of more races, and you will probably see why Marko decided to move him into RBR, and you could even find that Daniel will start feeling the pressure.

[dot235]

Q2 - > Q3 improvement:
Ricciardo - 0,9
Verstappen - 0,09
Hamilton - 0,159

FP3 > Q3 Improvement:
Hamilton - 1.2sec
Verstappen - 0.7sec
Vettel - +0.1sec


Something is terribly wrong.
Vettel should be able to have at least 0.7sec faster lap in Q3 than he had now. And that's already assuming that in FP3 Ferrari were pushing slightly more than RB which is not necessarily true.

Why are you assuming everyone was pushing equally in FP3? You know, the P standing for practice.... as such, fastest times are really of relevance. Long runs pace is more important as a reference and there Ferrari isnt (wasnt) that bad.

But given that most teams improved while Ferrari didnt, i do assume it has something to do with track temperature and/or setup...

When was the last time Vettel did representative lap in Q3 under similar conditions (no apparent technical issues, no drastic weather changes etc) which was slower than the one he completed during Free Practice Three (3) ? ... Never?

[Sonador]

I think that you have to look at it with a different perspective. Max has just been placed in the car and has had to learn new steering wheel functions, different handling etc, yet he is able to match and better Daniel. For a 18 yo to be able to do that is something. look at Kvyat, he has ability, yet has not been able to even match Sainz who is slower normally than Max. Kvyat had also the benefit of knowing the team and the car.
It was noticeable that Daniel was not grinning any more and was obviously concerned at the challenge from his new teammate. Give Max a couple of more races, and you will probably see why Marko decided to move him into RBR, and you could even find that Daniel will start feeling the pressure.

You have quoted me incorrectly

Ricciardo felt the pressure already, that is why i think Ricciardo was extremely happy after Q3.
An amazing lap by him when it counted the most, just like Hamilton did ...

I fully recognize what Max is doing right now is very very good for his age and experience.
He is very fast on raceday/racepace, but i would have rather seen that he had a proper build up to a full season.

I think he will do wel in Monaco, and maybe the Hungaroring.
Tommorow is all about staying out of trouble, finishing and bagging points.

[Phil]

FP3 > Q3 Improvement:
Hamilton - 1.2sec
Verstappen - 0.7sec
Vettel - +0.1sec


Something is terribly wrong.
Vettel should be able to have at least 0.7sec faster lap in Q3 than he had now. And that's already assuming that in FP3 Ferrari were pushing slightly more than RB which is not necessarily true.

Why are you assuming everyone was pushing equally in FP3? You know, the P standing for practice.... as such, fastest times are really of relevance. Long runs pace is more important as a reference and there Ferrari isnt (wasnt) that bad.

But given that most teams improved while Ferrari didnt, i do assume it has something to do with track temperature and/or setup...

When was the last time Vettel did representative lap in Q3 under similar conditions (no apparent technical issues, no drastic weather changes etc) which was slower than the one he completed during Free Practice Three (3) ? ... Never?

That wasn't necessarily my issue with your post, more that you were quoting Hamiltons and Verstappen's time that made the impression you were trying to make a correlation. My point was more that everyone did different laps, different tests so some logically made bigger improvements than others. Hamiltons 1.2sec improvement was one of them. If Vettel was on a genuine fast lap in FP3, and then the increase in track temperature 4 hours later could have been enough to offset that performance. Something obviously did and it affected both Ferraris. But the point is still, without knowing how much everyone was pushing on their "one quickest lap on a very crowded track in FP3" and then to quote comparisons to Q3.... I think it's fair to say Hamilton's quickest lap in FP3 wasn't representative, so of course his time improved by a lot...

[iotar__]

I think that you have to look at it with a different perspective. Max has just been placed in the car and has had to learn new steering wheel functions, different handling etc, yet he is able to match and better Daniel. For a 18 yo to be able to do that is something. look at Kvyat, he has ability, yet has not been able to even match Sainz who is slower normally than Max. Kvyat had also the benefit of knowing the team and the car.
It was noticeable that Daniel was not grinning any more and was obviously concerned at the challenge from his new teammate. Give Max a couple of more races, and you will probably see why Marko decided to move him into RBR, and you could even find that Daniel will start feeling the pressure.

Ricciardo felt the pressure already, that is why i think Ricciardo was extremely happy after Q3.
An amazing lap by him when it counted the most, just like Hamilton did ...
I fully recognize what Max is doing right now is very very good for his age and experience.
He is very fast on raceday/racepace, but i would have rather seen that he had a proper build up to a full season.
I think he will do wel in Monaco, and maybe the Hungaroring.
Tommorow is all about staying out of trouble, finishing and bagging points.

A. 0,4 s is not matching, it's a big gap,
B. Whether it was some outstanding lap depends on reference points, in this case only one - a team-mate. Example of reference points, 2015 Spanish GP:
Daniil Kvyat 1:26.629
Daniel Ricciardo 1:26.770

I don't recall anyone fainting . Now find out for yourself how many times was Kvyat in front, within 0,4 or better. The only reason for the hype is that it's a mid season change which is precisely why they did it.

[PlatinumZealot]

That Q3 lap is why it pays off to be a HAM fan folks!

[SR71]

Having an upgraded PU compared to your teammate sure pays off!

[Rikhart]

Q2 - > Q3 improvement:
Ricciardo - 0,9
Verstappen - 0,09
Hamilton - 0,159
A miracle... Mercedes would be writing letters already .

"Vettel unsure of why Ferrari weren't quick" Excuse me, what "Ferrari"? You were behind your 37 year old barely breathing team-mate. Slow or not you should have been fourth at worst. At least they can't blame it on Mercedes having some magical engine mode. I'm so glad there's some competition even though it's a team of marketing jokes.

Dont be a hater, its not good for your health, hapiness and you come off as a sad individual...

[Nuvolari]

Having an upgraded PU compared to your teammate sure pays off!

As is copying his setup.

Sorry, couldn't resist. In other news, for Ferrari:

[SR71]

Having an upgraded PU compared to your teammate sure pays off!

As is copying his setup.

Sorry, couldn't resist. In other news, for Ferrari:

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/26660689.jpg

Yes it's well documented that BOTH merc pilots have copied each others set ups.

[Xwang]

What do you think about this?
http://www.autosport.com/premium/featur ... qualifying

If they have changed settings between FP3 and quali, can they change them again before race?