Canadian GP 2008

[donskar]

Though I am a Tifosi, I have always respected McLaren as a very well run, efficient organization with strong business sense. Until recently.

I enjoyed McLaren's discomfort during StepneyGate, but gave them credit for handling the PR damage about as well as could be expected. But now I am baffled at the total lack of PR sense evident in Hamilton's statements.

Something is going on here:

Hamilton is a loose cannon, speaking without the knowledge of Ron Dennis' PR guys? Can't see Ron letting that go on!

McLaren is internally pre-occupied with other problems and is not in control of its public statements? Is Ron slipping out of the picture (and out of control)?

McLaren is so (over)confient that they don't care? Can't believe it.

Whatever, Hamilton is positioning himself to be the driver we love to hate.

His statements just do not fit the image McL/M-B want to project.

[Conceptual]

Though I am a Tifosi, I have always respected McLaren as a very well run, efficient organization with strong business sense. Until recently.

I enjoyed McLaren's discomfort during StepneyGate, but gave them credit for handling the PR damage about as well as could be expected. But now I am baffled at the total lack of PR sense evident in Hamilton's statements.

Something is going on here:

Hamilton is a loose cannon, speaking without the knowledge of Ron Dennis' PR guys? Can't see Ron letting that go on!

McLaren is internally pre-occupied with other problems and is not in control of its public statements? Is Ron slipping out of the picture (and out of control)?

McLaren is so (over)confient that they don't care? Can't believe it.

Whatever, Hamilton is positioning himself to be the driver we love to hate.

His statements just do not fit the image McL/M-B want to project.

Who thinks that Dennis is purposefully letting Hammy spew this stuff just to keep the other teams away from him come contract renewal time?

Chris

[JiMbO]

Though I am a Tifosi, I have always respected McLaren as a very well run, efficient organization with strong business sense. Until recently.

I enjoyed McLaren's discomfort during StepneyGate, but gave them credit for handling the PR damage about as well as could be expected. But now I am baffled at the total lack of PR sense evident in Hamilton's statements.

Something is going on here:

Hamilton is a loose cannon, speaking without the knowledge of Ron Dennis' PR guys? Can't see Ron letting that go on!

McLaren is internally pre-occupied with other problems and is not in control of its public statements? Is Ron slipping out of the picture (and out of control)?

McLaren is so (over)confient that they don't care? Can't believe it.

Whatever, Hamilton is positioning himself to be the driver we love to hate.

His statements just do not fit the image McL/M-B want to project.

Who thinks that Dennis is purposefully letting Hammy spew this stuff just to keep the other teams away from him come contract renewal time?

Chris

Not me!!

[FLC]

Seriously, something is wrong there. I have said many times before that I would not want to see McLaren go down in any way, they are important to F1 and about the only one to give Ferrari a good fight. But every time something goes wrong they never come up with authentic, honest statements anymore. "Heikki could have won the race if not..." this, "We made it easier on Ferrari..." that, not to mention the pure lies from the spygate period. What happened to "We messed up, we need to work on a, b and c"?

And how can Hamilton say they "destroyed" the other teams this weekend? Didn't they let him see the laptimes? After KR got rid of his tyre issue, around lap 10-11, he was closing on him at about 0.2-0.4 seconds a lap. Even if he didn't make his stupid mistake he would have been third, and who knows what would have happened onwards.
It doesn't make him look or sound any better. It makes him sound very unprofessional and very not serious, not to say arrogant. It's acceptable for him to try and cheer up his surroundings, but for god sake, don't do it this way, not publicly.

[waynes]

what FLC says is true

BUT

my main problem with lewis is "it was a poor stop, and the team didnt let me know about the red light" (quoted from his interview on itv live, so not word for word correct)

basically he's slating the team he is driving for, then blaming them for a simple mistake he made. at least he tried to rescue it by saying "i saw the red light but it was too late"

hopefully, Mclaren will realise that Heikki is by far the better driver and stick him on optimum strategies instead of Lewis

end of rant

[WhiteBlue]

with Ham's 10 place penalty it is Heikki's big chance to put on a good show in France.

Hamilton is a good driver but he makes a lot of mistakes for a top driver. to a certain extend this can be expected due to his lack of experience at the top. his attitude in this case is disappointing. such a mistake calls for an apology to the driver and team you have damaged, to your own team for the work you have caused them. then you may think about owing up to the mistake and promnising to do better next time. have a look at Vettel when he put the new Toro Rosso in the wall in free practise. in the end he had a bit of humor saying there wasn much run off. thats a much better way than whingeing and bragging.

McLaren are seriously behind Ferrari and this year there is BMW, Kubica and Heidfeld. none of them are making a lot of mistakes. they will be picking up a lot of points. hamilton and McLaren may rue the points they threw away later.

[Ray]

This is exactly why I think all the BS about Alonso was unjustified and blown completely out of proportion. I felt really sorry for him when the British press crucified him last year. Hamilton has been talked up like he is performing on a level so much higher than evryone else, and the kid can't even admit he commited a royally stupid mistake. Neither can his team for that matter. Poor attitudes and the belief you are the best there is, when you really aren't makes for some great humor in my opinion. I can't wait to hear all the "yeah but"s when he blows the chapionship again this year. Piquet Sr. Said it best in this months F1 Racing issue about himself and Mansell when he became his teammate. 'The situation with Mansell was like McLaren last year with Hamilton and Alonso. I was a two time World Champion, he was nothing."

[connollyg]

Its interesting looking at the video's of the crash up on YouTube.

Its obvious from this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-joxpvUT ... re=related
about 15 seconds in that the lights were either just on yellow or yellow and flashing blue and then suddenly go to red for approx 10 seconds and then go to green.
At the end of the pitlane there are two white lines. The first one in line with a gantry it looks like (Start/Finish Line?) the second is obviously the end of the pitlane and is where the lights are positioned.
As Robert and Kimi cruise to the pitlane exit (Roberts speed-limiter is on, Kimi's isn't) they get about halfway between these two lines and obviously decelerate, its not completely obvious when the light changes for them, but when the view changes its obvious that Lewis gets to the first line and then the lights change.

Are we perhaps looking at operator error on behalf of the lights operator? There doesnt appear to be any reason for the Red light, in the background cars can be seen passing the end of the pitlane while the lights are Yellow/Yellow & Blue

G

[cookty]

hi connollyg are you sure there yellow as i think they are red but i might be mistaken, and if they were yellow doesnt a yellow flag/light mean caution and be preperared to stop

[WhiteBlue]

I don't believe in operator error. the rule is about a green light. you must not go unless a green light is given. I think they display the alternating lights shortly before they switch to the green light to warn you. there is also the flashing blue light which warns drivers that cars are passing the track near the pit exit. that one operates all the time throughout the race. so you have to pay attention to all this and focus to make sure you do not break a rule. the most importante as always is to pay attention to the cars in front . you are not supposed to run into them.

I have also checked for overtaking in the pitlane under safety car. It is specifically allowed from the point where you pass the 1st safety car line in the pit entry. the rule is in the Appendix H of the sporting code of the FIA.

[nae]

there is not yellow light just 2 reds
and even if there was it also means stop

you cant go till there is a green

what you see is a high intensity LED red light
alternating between the 2 red bulbs assembly's
most likely added to prevent a massa like repeat
perhaps a raised barrier next year or a wire like
in the horses

not only that, you dont have right of way if a
car is parked blocking the track and you certainly
cant expect to get away with nerffing into the car
in front

there is NO excuses for blind boy
now if he would just man up and admit he made a
rookie error he might save some face, getting a bit
late already for that

and did anyone read that FA is blaming his team for
loosing him a possible win

some (all?) of these guys live in a dream world

all the more respect to kimi for his oh so cool
reaction to being shafted from behind

[Spencifer_Murphy]

OK, OK
So there's NO difference between driving at Monaco at the RAIN (also do you think following another car with today's car aero much helps braking?) and cruising at limiter at dry Montreal pit-lane (one of the widest in the Championship btw).
Yeah, it's mistakes, but the degree of stupidity is a bit different to me.

Hamilton makes stupid mistakes. Part of his style (China, Brazil, Bahrein...).

I bet he was screaming - F**k red car's ahead of me!!!! Then... oops it stands still...

I never said there was no difference between the two incidences. I'm say both mistakes were stupid, and that Kimi has some front for tyring to complain about it. BTW about ure post:
Monaco in what rain exactly? By the time Kimi had his accident some drivers were on dry tyres, following another cars aero wake makes the car understeer, not oversteer, besides kimi should know this...just like lewis should know that he must stop at a red light. And what difference does the width of the pitlane make, he braked way too late, the pitlane could have been three miles wide and he'd have still hit them.

Making mistakes is not "part of Lewis' style", its part of everybody's, everybody makes mistakes from time to time. He cocked up at China 2007 yes, and Montreal 2008, but what mistake did he make at Bahrain...crashing in practice? Didn't Schumi roll his car over in practice for the 2001 Aussie GP? And what on earth did he do wrong at Brazil in 2007? His car lost forward drive....that's hardly his fault is it?! That's like Blaming Michael for getting a punchture in the 2006 Barzilian GP. Madness.


Also a quick point in general...why is it so many sports people have to "preach" tp the poor sod who cocked up...Kimi with his tapping Lewis on the shoulder and pointing at the red light...by that point does it make a difference and does he really think Lewis didn't see it by the time he's climbed out of the car. Put it this way, switch their posistions, would Kimi appriciate lewis patronising him by pointing at the red light? No...so why does he do it? You see it so often in sports and it aggrivates me because they guy who's been wrong acts like they're infallible. Could you imagine Adrian Sutil having a go and explaining what Kimi did wrong after their Monaco shunt?

[quote="Conceptual]And Kimi didnt deserve to have his race ruined by a guy that he beat out of the pits. On top of that, Ferrari didn't deserve to lose the manufacturer points due to McLarens incompetence.

Anytime there is a non-racing incident that is (should) avoidable, there should be a penalty. These cars are too expensive, and to be honest, so are the drivers lives.[/quote]

Totally agree.

Hamilton should have his super license pulled after showing how badly he pays attention to what he is doing.

That however is laughable...have his super licence revoked for what exactly? Doing exactly the same thing as Montoya & Massa did at the same track a few years ago (ignore a red light) the difference here is that two cars, racing side by side suddenly stopped, had they not been trying it beat eachother out of the pits Kimi & Robert would not have stopped so suddenly and Lewis (who should have been paying more attention anyway) would have probably stopped in time. He simply wasn't expecting them to stop cause he weren't paying attention. Which is wrong, and no I'm not saying it Kimi or Roberts fault, just that He made the same mistake that others have made before him, they got a penalty, and so has Lewis. So why then should Lewis have his licence revoked and not the others?

Yes, Lewis & Nico's comments about the red light are not wise...keppt those type of thoughts to yourself. I find Nico's more worrying though as he fails to bother looking for the light. But I see no reason to revoke their licences for their comments, I mean revoke their licence for as you call it "disrespecting the rules", scraping the bottom of the barrel for excuses now are we? What a driver is no longer allowed to have an opinion. Frankly I find the red light rule stupid, why is it that it is safe for cars to exit the pit lane at high speed onto a track with cars racing on it, but not when those cars are parading around at pit-lane speeds...it doesn't make sence. (I do however see the need for the red light...eg, if there is an accident at the pitlane exit for example...I just dont see why it has to be red in this sort of circumstance.) but those are the rules and we must abide by them. lewis never said that he does abide by the rules, he never said, like Nico, that he doesn't bother to look for the light (that IS worrying) he just said he thinks its a stupid rule. "Shock-horror, a driver with an opinion....stop him from racing! Hang him!". What rubbish.

@ waynes, comments can be taken out of context. During the race Lousie Goodman interviewed Lewis about his accident and she asked him "Did the team tell you about the red light" and he said "Yeah, they (did / should) but it was too late." Clearly that's not slating the team and blaming them, that's explaining that there was not enough time for them to warn him.

I've yet to see a reliable source quote lewis as actually blaming anybody else. He's said before "I messed up", so why wouldn't he do that now. My my my what short memories we have. Any excuse to slate the driver you don't like eh? Why is it that some people can't look at things from more than one angle. Its either "So and so's totally wrong, ban them from driving" or its "So and so is the greatest ever, they can do no wrong."

I am a Lewis hamilton fan, yes, but even I can say the boy messed up BIG TIME at Canada, I can also say that I am still a Fernando Alonso fan, and this year am pleased that he's looking happier at Renault and publicly is becoming somebody I feel I can LIKE again. I'm also a Kubica fan, and a Fan of Kimi & Force India...you'd think so many of those things would be mutually exclusive. But they're not, as long as you don't get some crazy biased view towards one or the other. Its like an Arsenal FC fan saying "I dont want either Man Utd or Chelsea to win the Europea Champions League" just because it's their rivals in the final. Well guess what? One of them's gonna win it, surely there's one that you'd rather see win than the other?

[Conceptual]

OK, OK
So there's NO difference between driving at Monaco at the RAIN (also do you think following another car with today's car aero much helps braking?) and cruising at limiter at dry Montreal pit-lane (one of the widest in the Championship btw).
Yeah, it's mistakes, but the degree of stupidity is a bit different to me.

Hamilton makes stupid mistakes. Part of his style (China, Brazil, Bahrein...).

I bet he was screaming - F**k red car's ahead of me!!!! Then... oops it stands still...

I never said there was no difference between the two incidences. I'm say both mistakes were stupid, and that Kimi has some front for tyring to complain about it. BTW about ure post:
Monaco in what rain exactly? By the time Kimi had his accident some drivers were on dry tyres, following another cars aero wake makes the car understeer, not oversteer, besides kimi should know this...just like lewis should know that he must stop at a red light. And what difference does the width of the pitlane make, he braked way too late, the pitlane could have been three miles wide and he'd have still hit them.

Making mistakes is not "part of Lewis' style", its part of everybody's, everybody makes mistakes from time to time. He cocked up at China 2007 yes, and Montreal 2008, but what mistake did he make at Bahrain...crashing in practice? Didn't Schumi roll his car over in practice for the 2001 Aussie GP? And what on earth did he do wrong at Brazil in 2007? His car lost forward drive....that's hardly his fault is it?! That's like Blaming Michael for getting a punchture in the 2006 Barzilian GP. Madness.


Also a quick point in general...why is it so many sports people have to "preach" tp the poor sod who cocked up...Kimi with his tapping Lewis on the shoulder and pointing at the red light...by that point does it make a difference and does he really think Lewis didn't see it by the time he's climbed out of the car. Put it this way, switch their posistions, would Kimi appriciate lewis patronising him by pointing at the red light? No...so why does he do it? You see it so often in sports and it aggrivates me because they guy who's been wrong acts like they're infallible. Could you imagine Adrian Sutil having a go and explaining what Kimi did wrong after their Monaco shunt?

[quote="Conceptual]And Kimi didnt deserve to have his race ruined by a guy that he beat out of the pits. On top of that, Ferrari didn't deserve to lose the manufacturer points due to McLarens incompetence.

Anytime there is a non-racing incident that is (should) avoidable, there should be a penalty. These cars are too expensive, and to be honest, so are the drivers lives.

Totally agree.

Hamilton should have his super license pulled after showing how badly he pays attention to what he is doing.

That however is laughable...have his super licence revoked for what exactly? Doing exactly the same thing as Montoya & Massa did at the same track a few years ago (ignore a red light) the difference here is that two cars, racing side by side suddenly stopped, had they not been trying it beat eachother out of the pits Kimi & Robert would not have stopped so suddenly and Lewis (who should have been paying more attention anyway) would have probably stopped in time. He simply wasn't expecting them to stop cause he weren't paying attention. Which is wrong, and no I'm not saying it Kimi or Roberts fault, just that He made the same mistake that others have made before him, they got a penalty, and so has Lewis. So why then should Lewis have his licence revoked and not the others?

Yes, Lewis & Nico's comments about the red light are not wise...keppt those type of thoughts to yourself. I find Nico's more worrying though as he fails to bother looking for the light. But I see no reason to revoke their licences for their comments, I mean revoke their licence for as you call it "disrespecting the rules", scraping the bottom of the barrel for excuses now are we? What a driver is no longer allowed to have an opinion. Frankly I find the red light rule stupid, why is it that it is safe for cars to exit the pit lane at high speed onto a track with cars racing on it, but not when those cars are parading around at pit-lane speeds...it doesn't make sence. (I do however see the need for the red light...eg, if there is an accident at the pitlane exit for example...I just dont see why it has to be red in this sort of circumstance.) but those are the rules and we must abide by them. lewis never said that he does abide by the rules, he never said, like Nico, that he doesn't bother to look for the light (that IS worrying) he just said he thinks its a stupid rule. "Shock-horror, a driver with an opinion....stop him from racing! Hang him!". What rubbish.

@ waynes, comments can be taken out of context. During the race Lousie Goodman interviewed Lewis about his accident and she asked him "Did the team tell you about the red light" and he said "Yeah, they (did / should) but it was too late." Clearly that's not slating the team and blaming them, that's explaining that there was not enough time for them to warn him.

I've yet to see a reliable source quote lewis as actually blaming anybody else. He's said before "I messed up", so why wouldn't he do that now. My my my what short memories we have. Any excuse to slate the driver you don't like eh? Why is it that some people can't look at things from more than one angle. Its either "So and so's totally wrong, ban them from driving" or its "So and so is the greatest ever, they can do no wrong."

I am a Lewis hamilton fan, yes, but even I can say the boy messed up BIG TIME at Canada, I can also say that I am still a Fernando Alonso fan, and this year am pleased that he's looking happier at Renault and publicly is becoming somebody I feel I can LIKE again. I'm also a Kubica fan, and a Fan of Kimi & Force India...you'd think so many of those things would be mutually exclusive. But they're not, as long as you don't get some crazy biased view towards one or the other. Its like an Arsenal FC fan saying "I dont want either Man Utd or Chelsea to win the Europea Champions League" just because it's their rivals in the final. Well guess what? One of them's gonna win it, surely there's one that you'd rather see win than the other?[/quote]

I read alot of subjective comparison to people, places and times past, all of which are utterly irrelevant to what happened in Canada.

To make a juvenile mistake like Hamilton did, and cost another team millions of dollars is deffinately worthy of a penalty. Then on top of it, for Lewis to whine about how "stupid" the lights are, instead of taking responsibility for utterly ignoring them deserves a bit of ridicule.

Hamilton is lucky that a tap on the back is ALL that Kimi gave him. I think that if it would have been anyone BUT Kimi, Lewis may have had his visor flipped up, and his eyes gouged.

But it is ok to take responsibility from your favorite driver and dilute it amongst other drivers from other times, Spence... I remember you doing something similar during the Stepney-gate saga.

Taking responsibility by pointing out others mistakes is a childs game. I commend you on your proficiency at it, it shows a lifelong commitment to perecting it!

Chris

[bizadfar]

Or have tehir superlicense suspended for a few races due to not only utterly disrespecting the rules, but whining about a light that they KNOW IS THERE AND DICTATES WHEN THEY CAN GO!

To say that you dont care to look, or you are too busy fiddling with knobs to look is not only disrespectful to Kimi and Kubica (they were able to figure it out) but to the F1 sporting regulations.

Don't blame your gross stupidity on the regulations. It only makes you look like a retard.

Chris

I dont know what the hell you're referring to me for, you either had a big misread or bit to drink.
I already mentioned if Nico and Lewis are going to talk publicly like that, they need to hire PR ppl, as in they are incredibly stupid for saying that and I'd send em to the back of the grid or fine $.

You said they need PR ppl to speak for them, and I said "Or they need their super license suspended..."

Maybe YOU are the one drinking too much?

Chris

I don't think I've seen a bigger dumbass, natural alcohol? grass?


Spencer, "had they not been racing out the pits"
Seriously, FO man, this is racing, this is what we want. ffs...

[Conceptual]

I don't think I've seen a bigger dumbass, natural alcohol? grass?


Spencer, "had they not been racing out the pits"
Seriously, FO man, this is racing, this is what we want. ffs...

Biz, do you care to clarify this post? Calling me a dumbass without any explaination really isn't a legitimate argument. Especially when it looks like you are calling me a moonshiner pothead.

I would like to know what you mean, if you even know what you meant.

Chris