Mercedes GP MGP W01

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Auto motor und sport,


If you dig through this thread the link is still active on one of my posts.
And the numbers dont include engine staff

[Richard]

As for Mercedes they always bet on the wrong card.

Are you sure? They did a very good job with McLaren, and I'm sure their influence helps with Force India creeping up the grid.

The new relationship with the Brawn team has only just started. Last year was courtship, this year is getting started. I expect you'll see Merc influencing key appointments in the team this year in preparation for next 2011. The benefit of that will show in 2012.

[manchild]

They had good car, car that just needed regular updates, but than vanity of Mr. Perfect became priority, so they've changed car to suit him, and ruined what they've had. MSC isn't better driver than Nico. Period. At this age, at current driver constellation, there is at least a dozen drivers in F1 that can deliver same or even better results than his greatness. As soon as Mercedes realizes that, the better for the team.

...

This is a topic about the car, right? Did Mercedes undertook major changes in suspension/chassis design because MSC complained or not? If the answer is yes, that I don't see how mentioning initiator of changes for car's design is inappropriate.

Nico was shining in previous version, had no similar complaints, and as much I can tell, there was nothing wrong with shorter car apart the fact that an excuse for blowing 100 millions on driver who can't deliver anymore had to be found, by both team and the driver.

It's still not to late to bring in old car, replace Mr. Boohoo with Heidfeld and continue with updates the way Renault is doing.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Manchild, dont suppose you could verify anything of what you just posted?
Seems you have a dislike of Schumacher which is fair enough, as he isnt everyones cup of tea.
But when it impedes your neutrality on the car and team, then that clouds the issue.

Rosberg was equally unhappy with the short wheelbase of the W01, he just dealt with it better. He wanted the change just as much as Schumi.
And as for Schueys contract, Mercedes pay what they feel he is worth. Since he was announced as a driver, Mercedes have secured 50 million dollars worth of sponsors as well as increasing the revenue of current sponsors.
Thats annually.

Brawn and haug both maintain that Mercedes could be actually making money from F1 very soon.

So that just leaves the results which have been a mixed bag, but did anyone really expect Schumacher to jump in and win straight away? A great he is yes, but sadly the guy is also human.

[siskue2005]

They had good car, car that just needed regular updates, but than vanity of Mr. Perfect became priority, so they've changed car to suit him, and ruined what they've had. MSC isn't better driver than Nico. Period. At this age, at current driver constellation, there is at least a dozen drivers in F1 that can deliver same or even better results than his greatness. As soon as Mercedes realizes that, the better for the team.

...

This is a topic about the car, right? Did Mercedes undertook major changes in suspension/chassis design because MSC complained or not? If the answer is yes, that I don't see how mentioning initiator of changes for car's design is inappropriate.

Nico was shining in previous version, had no similar complaints, and as much I can tell, there was nothing wrong with shorter car apart the fact that an excuse for blowing 100 millions on driver who can't deliver anymore had to be found, by both team and the driver.

Wrong

It's still not to late to bring in old car, replace Mr. Boohoo with Heidfeld and continue with updates the way Renault is doing.

It is late, if they bring it, they will be the 6th or 7th fastest team
All the teams improve, so

then why didnt Nico beat Mr. Boohoo in Monaco with the older version?
Their goes ur theory in drain

[mep]

mep:
As for Mercedes they always bet on the wrong card.

Regarding that post I must clarify that this was meant from a commercial point of view not from a technical.
Yes I really think they could promote themselves better last year and this year.
It doesn't matter how much you work and what you achieve by this when you miss to promote it to the broad publicity it's all worthless. The media doesn't ask why something happened they just tell what happened.
Last year they asked Norbert Haug after every Brawn victory when we will see the Mercedes sign on that car. He never replied and just tried to excuse why McLaren Mercedes performed so bad. It's no big deal to print the star on that car but they must had their reasons why they did not.
After the season they bought whole Brawn team to call it Mercedes GP and on the same time they started to divorce from McLaren.
Now this year we see McLaren Mercedes wining and Haug whining because Mercedes GP performs so badly.


In the end Mercedes did a great job during both years but nobody notices because they mess up to communicate it in a proper fashion.

[aral]

Manchild, dont suppose you could verify anything of what you just posted?
Seems you have a dislike of Schumacher which is fair enough, as he isnt everyones cup of tea.
But when it impedes your neutrality on the car and team, then that clouds the issue.

Rosberg was equally unhappy with the short wheelbase of the W01, he just dealt with it better. He wanted the change just as much as Schumi.
And as for Schueys contract, Mercedes pay what they feel he is worth. Since he was announced as a driver, Mercedes have secured 50 million dollars worth of sponsors as well as increasing the revenue of current sponsors.
Thats annually.

Brawn and haug both maintain that Mercedes could be actually making money from F1 very soon.

So that just leaves the results which have been a mixed bag, but did anyone really expect Schumacher to jump in and win straight away? A great he is yes, but sadly the guy is also human.

Maybe some of the sponsors will jump ship, as the promised performance has not materialised. After all, the car is now rarely on the screen, so exposure is minimal. And OK, they may make money soon, but that is because they are reducing what they are putting into the team, both for the remainder of this year, and for next year.

[vealio]

People are way to impatient to Schumacher, Brawn and Mercedes.
You don´t turn a mediocre team (let´s admit it, BAR/Honda couldn´t get their act together) into a winning team over night.
Honda built a great car last year, true, but the most difficult part in F1 is not to be on top but to stay there.
Things look much better in theory for Mercedes next year. KERS is back and Mercedes had/have a superb system, new tyre supplier so everyone has to start from zero, the other big teams have to reduce their staff during the winter, something Mercedes already have to 90%.
They should use the rest of the season as a big test session, like McLaren last year.
1-2 wins at the end of the year might still possible thought.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Did you not watch the Canadian GP?
Schumacher had the most coverage....... rightly or wrongly!

And regards the question of advertising. Mercedes GP have Petronas on board as title sponsor for 25 million a year, for 3 years. Deutsche Post have signed an exclusive arrangement for 2 years worth roughly 12.5 million, and Monster pay Mercedes to be exclusive drinks partner.(no figures)
Autonomy have also increased their sponsorship by 4 million this year and all this is not just about Schumacher, but also the return of the fabled silverarrows.

So Mercedes, even if they arent doing quite as well as Mclaren. will have more exposure with their own car, rather than just Mclaren engine suppliers and general money pit for the Woking team.
And crucially they wont be spending as much.

Dont write off Schumacher either, the W01 isnt a great machine, but neither is it a total pig. Its an above average F1 car that had a flaw in the initial desgin stages. --- happens, but to question the existence of the team over a mediocre season is jumping the gun a bit....

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

People are way to impatient to Schumacher, Brawn and Mercedes.
You don´t turn a mediocre team (let´s admit it, BAR/Honda couldn´t get their act together) into a winning team over night.
Honda built a great car last year, true, but the most difficult part in F1 is not to be on top but to stay there.
Things look much better in theory for Mercedes next year. KERS is back and Mercedes had/have a superb system, new tyre supplier so everyone has to start from zero, the other big teams have to reduce their staff during the winter, something Mercedes already have to 90%.
They should use the rest of the season as a big test session, like McLaren last year.
1-2 wins at the end of the year might still possible thought.

=D> +1

[siskue2005]

Manchild, dont suppose you could verify anything of what you just posted?
Seems you have a dislike of Schumacher which is fair enough, as he isnt everyones cup of tea.
But when it impedes your neutrality on the car and team, then that clouds the issue.

Rosberg was equally unhappy with the short wheelbase of the W01, he just dealt with it better. He wanted the change just as much as Schumi.
And as for Schueys contract, Mercedes pay what they feel he is worth. Since he was announced as a driver, Mercedes have secured 50 million dollars worth of sponsors as well as increasing the revenue of current sponsors.
Thats annually.

Brawn and haug both maintain that Mercedes could be actually making money from F1 very soon.

So that just leaves the results which have been a mixed bag, but did anyone really expect Schumacher to jump in and win straight away? A great he is yes, but sadly the guy is also human.

Maybe some of the sponsors will jump ship, as the promised performance has not materialised. After all, the car is now rarely on the screen, so exposure is minimal. And OK, they may make money soon, but that is because they are reducing what they are putting into the team, both for the remainder of this year, and for next year.

haha...no one promised the performance

And did u really watch the race , Schumy got more coverage than leaders

[ringo]

By designing a car with a basic weight distribution flaw, and no working F-duct, and for it to still be 0.5 to 0.8 seconds off the leaders is no pig .
People can deride as much as they want, it changes nothing.

As soon as Mercedes and Schumacher get it right, people will very quickly forget about the happenings of 2010. No one expects Schumacher to win now, and with every passing race it all becomes an excercise in executing the best with what you have got. And right now the RB6, MP4/25 and F10 are faster and look like being faster for the rest of the year.

Its hardly a tragedy, just a rebuilding year. Wait for 2011 for the true acid test of this project. 1 mistake is acceptable but another mistake like this year and Stuttgart will dump F1 and do sportscars instead.

Let me elucidate what i was saying. Yes the car is no slouch. It is a top 4 car. It can be very quick at little instances in time.
However what hurts the car is that there is a glass ceiling that it will hit, where it cannot develope any further. This is how the piggyness comes in.
You have a car that is inherently handicapped, and even with compensatory fixes for this "special needs" car, it will still have its fundamental shortcomings.

The W01 is 0.5 to 0.8 seconds off the leaders, which is not bad, looking at the situation. But i am sure it was not that far of in the earlier races. I am also sure that Rosberg could have raced with a ferrari and a Mclaren in the past. Now the car is stagnant. That 0.8s gap is growing and Brawn can do little to hold to that gap, all because the updates can only do so much.
As it is, Renault will surpass them. Reason being that the Renault is not handicapped. It's a car with a nice base, well balanced, and responds wholly to upgrades; no design flaws or dead ends.
Renault don't do updates to compensate for weaknesses. They update to have a complete improvement.

I want to see Shumacher win again, or even Rosberg get his first win. But i think the W01's days are numbered. Next years car should give them that opportunity.

[aral]

Manchild, dont suppose you could verify anything of what you just posted?
Seems you have a dislike of Schumacher which is fair enough, as he isnt everyones cup of tea.
But when it impedes your neutrality on the car and team, then that clouds the issue.

Rosberg was equally unhappy with the short wheelbase of the W01, he just dealt with it better. He wanted the change just as much as Schumi.
And as for Schueys contract, Mercedes pay what they feel he is worth. Since he was announced as a driver, Mercedes have secured 50 million dollars worth of sponsors as well as increasing the revenue of current sponsors.
Thats annually.

Brawn and haug both maintain that Mercedes could be actually making money from F1 very soon.

So that just leaves the results which have been a mixed bag, but did anyone really expect Schumacher to jump in and win straight away? A great he is yes, but sadly the guy is also human.

Maybe some of the sponsors will jump ship, as the promised performance has not materialised. After all, the car is now rarely on the screen, so exposure is minimal. And OK, they may make money soon, but that is because they are reducing what they are putting into the team, both for the remainder of this year, and for next year.

haha...no one promised the performance

And did u really watch the race , Schumy got more coverage than leaders

It was promised that Merc would be winning GPs by 1st July. Not long to go now.

And yes, there were a number of shots of Schumi, but these were when he was having set-tos with others. Hardly what the sponsors want!

[ggajic]

Let me elucidate what i was saying. Yes the car is no slouch. It is a top 4 car. It can be very quick at little instances in time.
However what hurts the car is that there is a glass ceiling that it will hit, where it cannot develope any further. This is how the piggyness comes in.
You have a car that is inherently handicapped, and even with compensatory fixes for this "special needs" car, it will still have its fundamental shortcomings.

The W01 is 0.5 to 0.8 seconds off the leaders, which is not bad, looking at the situation. But i am sure it was not that far of in the earlier races. I am also sure that Rosberg could have raced with a ferrari and a Mclaren in the past. Now the car is stagnant. That 0.8s gap is growing and Brawn can do little to hold to that gap, all because the updates can only do so much.
As it is, Renault will surpass them. Reason being that the Renault is not handicapped. It's a car with a nice base, well balanced, and responds wholly to upgrades; no design flaws or dead ends.
Renault don't do updates to compensate for weaknesses. They update to have a complete improvement.

I want to see Shumacher win again, or even Rosberg get his first win. But i think the W01's days are numbered. Next years car should give them that opportunity.

I don't agree that Rosberg could win or race with other top teams. If you remember first race in Bahrein, Mercedes was nowhere near, as was the case with McLaren. In fact, first race was Ferrari against Red Bull. So, I would say that McLaren made greates improvement and it is embarrassing that Mercedes did not follow. Yes, they made progress and we can argue weather or not this progress was in way to suit Schumacher or not. However, I am almost certain that if car remained same as it was in Bahrein and first four races - it would be trailing far back. It is also worth noticing that with unknown regulations for 2011. it is not possible to even start development of new car from scratch. How much regulations for 2011. will change it is not yet known - and even if KERS is back - it would probably be same for everyone, so I don't see any advantage of KERS developed by Honda. And yes, Mercedes with Schumacher did manage to get many sponsors. But without wins and better publicity it is question how many of this sponsors are willing to remain with Mercedes..

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Mercedes embaressed?

Hardly! What happened in 2005 and 2006 when Reanualt beat Ferrari?
Where Ferrari "embaressed"? Humbled yes, but Mercedes are big and ugly enough to take this sort of thing on the chin.
And as I readily pointed out, Mercedes contracts are 3 years or more.
To break this, will lead to penalty clauses.

And wether Schumacher hangs around or not is of no consequence to the long term game plan. That is to see wether Mercedes can become established in F1 on its own steam without spending crazy amounts of cash.

We are in the first phase of this, let it happen naturally.