Red Bull RB9 Renault

[Roonaldo]

Very interesting.

Just re-watched US GP, lap 29, Webber pit stop.

Rearward facing camera, when the car comes off the jack, the tea tray stay bends significantly, just coming off the jacks.

[Holm86]

Very interesting.

Just re-watched US GP, lap 29, Webber pit stop.

Rearward facing camera, when the car comes off the jack, the tea tray stay bends significantly, just coming off the jacks.

Do a bit of a search. Its already mentioned in here.

Found it for you : http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... start=1815

[shelly]

@CBeck113: I would liek to see it too. I have seen that on Gazzetta dello Sport Piola has published a more detailed drawing; probably this week it will be published on Autosport too so it could give some better idea.

@flyinfrog: I think that you do not need such a massive structure in carbon to withstand the proof load - my idea is that the bridge is a flexible cover - that's why I think it is glass. If it is carbon, seeing the weave could give some hint anyway

that doesn't really make much sense. If you want to to flex more use less carbon. They use carbon for the cosmetic body panels not glass.

It makes sense: more than it - it is common practice. If you want something to flex on the car, you usually use fiberglass.
The bodywork is made of carbon, the vanity panel in the 2013 noses is fiberglass (it is in the rules iirc).

@cbeck: what translation?

[bill shoe]

The bow-tie device looks like the thing that gets actuated to lift the tea-tray, but the article sheds no light on what actuates it. Somehow it gets actuated when the front suspension is loaded. So the article and drawing only reveal maybe 20% of the overall concept.

But this picture (if described accurately) lets other teams know they can design blatant see-saw mechanisms, as long as the actuation is not obvious to the FIA. I wonder if the actuation is utterly intrinsic to the overall design and flexing of the chassis tub, or if it's something that can be added on to a conventional chassis tub. Maybe a FRIC-type spring/damper mounted in an opportunistic location near the see-saw mechanism? This would require only local chassis deformation in the area of the see-saw rather than some kind of deformation along the entire chassis length from the front suspension to the tea-tray.

[flynfrog]

It makes sense: more than it - it is common practice. If you want something to flex on the car, you usually use fiberglass.
The bodywork is made of carbon, the vanity panel in the 2013 noses is fiberglass (it is in the rules iirc).

@cbeck: what translation?

You can get the same flex out of carbon with less weight and volume why would you use glass?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_modulus

[thisisatest]

It makes sense: more than it - it is common practice. If you want something to flex on the car, you usually use fiberglass.

the suspension flexures are carbon. so is the "flexy-wing". it may be that in production items, it is easier (and certainly cheaper) to manufacture flexing parts of a specific stiffness with fiberglass.

[CBeck113]

It makes sense: more than it - it is common practice. If you want something to flex on the car, you usually use fiberglass.
The bodywork is made of carbon, the vanity panel in the 2013 noses is fiberglass (it is in the rules iirc).

@cbeck: what translation?

The one from here http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/33275/ ... nel-t-tray

Can't imagine "glass" being anything else in this context...

[LookBackTime]

And yet it moves: the RB9 yields another secret.

http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2013/12 ... r.html?m=1

.

[McMrocks]

It was a surprise then when in Brazil, thanks perhaps to the team being a bit more relaxed, a photographer was able to snap a picture which showed the inside of the t-tray and keel assembly

source: http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2013/12 ... r.html?m=1

is there any chance that we will see that picture? In all the drawings it is not explained what role the stay plays. It defenetly has to play a role since it bends unusually.

Somehow the silver rod(stay) is bend already bend if no load is applied(It is bend to the left side if you look from the front). If a little load is applied it is bend to the other direction. The stay has the highest stiffness when he is not bend. So some device has to push the stay in that way that he is straight when 200kg are applied to it. When more than 200kg are applied it bends to the other side (to the right side if you look at it from the front). Since the stay is bend the stiffness decreases again which will lead to less wear at the skid block

[shelly]

It makes sense: more than it - it is common practice. If you want something to flex on the car, you usually use fiberglass.

the suspension flexures are carbon. so is the "flexy-wing". it may be that in production items, it is easier (and certainly cheaper) to manufacture flexing parts of a specific stiffness with fiberglass.

Where did you get the info about flexi wings and suspension flexures being in carbon? Some years ago they were made with fiberglass - maybe the technology has evolved and now they are made in carbon. Anyway the loads in that cases are higher - for the t-tray glass would be still an option.

@flyinfrog: you cannot get more flexible than 1 layer of carbon, that's why glass is a good option.For example in the regsit is prescribed taht the rear wing spacers cannot be made in a material with modulus less than a certain threshold, specifically to ban fiberglass

@cbeck: the article did not mention glass, it is me that put it into the discussion.

[flynfrog]

Where did you get the info about flexi wings and suspension flexures being in carbon? Some years ago they were made with fiberglass - maybe the technology has evolved and now they are made in carbon. Anyway the loads in that cases are higher - for the t-tray glass would be still an option.

@flyinfrog: you cannot get more flexible than 1 layer of carbon, that's why glass is a good option.For example in the regsit is prescribed taht the rear wing spacers cannot be made in a material with modulus less than a certain threshold, specifically to ban fiberglass

You can always tailor your flex by your layup pattern or drop you fiber count going to a 3x fiber over a 12k would be a pretty big drop. one ply of carbon would be incredibly weak not really an issue here.

Unless you are worried about electrical insulation or trying to match a CTE glass is for boats not race cars.

[thisisatest]

Similarly, one would sometimes use fiberglass as a "scrim" layer (dunno why it's called that) between carbon and, say, aluminum hard points. Otherwise they will corrode and separate.

[flynfrog]

Similarly, one would sometimes use fiberglass as a "scrim" layer (dunno why it's called that) between carbon and, say, aluminum hard points. Otherwise they will corrode and separate.

galvanic corrosion, you can also alodine the aluminum or wet install. Its really more for planes than limited use race cars

[shelly]

Where did you get the info about flexi wings and suspension flexures being in carbon? Some years ago they were made with fiberglass - maybe the technology has evolved and now they are made in carbon. Anyway the loads in that cases are higher - for the t-tray glass would be still an option.

@flyinfrog: you cannot get more flexible than 1 layer of carbon, that's why glass is a good option.For example in the regsit is prescribed taht the rear wing spacers cannot be made in a material with modulus less than a certain threshold, specifically to ban fiberglass

http://assets.f1-fans.co.uk/img/full/125146836332.jpg
http://www.gurneyflap.com/Resources/DSCF0272.jpg


You can always tailor your flex by your layup pattern or drop you fiber count going to a 3x fiber over a 12k would be a pretty big drop. one ply of carbon would be incredibly weak not really an issue here.

Unless you are worried about electrical insulation or trying to match a CTE glass is for boats not race cars.

In the picture that you posted probably there is fiberglass: in the flexures of the low wishbone of the renault or in the front wing of the rbr. Stating that there is no use for glass in racing cars is incorrect - you seem to know already something about composites, take this fact as a learning point

[flynfrog]

If you say so.....