USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

[Giblet]

This is just a business, a corporation, with managers. A good investor, that was more involved, would push out Windsor and Anderson, and prop up the foundation with the right people. They have mostly what they need to build a car, minus the right people holding the reigns.

It didn't have to get to this point.

Hurley has little investment experience I know of, he started a web site, and got bought by the Goog.

That does not make you a sound investor. I think he was blinded by the light.

[segedunum]

Just read the points. USF1 was into the fourth or fifth month running as a serious operation when they came under attack from third parties interested in taking their license.

This discussion has now gone off into la, la land I'm afraid. Vultures circle when something is dying. The mere act of a vulture circling does not make something die I'm afraid, but I seem to have had little luck in getting that over.

Considering the responsibilities described on their web site Hurley should have stopped that cold in its tracks. Instead he took no active measures to beef up his fellow directors.

So you're saying that he should have beefed up directors in order to cover for the incompetence? He's an investor, not the team management, providing support when needed. That's all the web site says. The Peter and Ken protection brigade trucks on.

I can clearly see why Bernie would be interested to destroy USF1 and have someone else take their license. Imagine the criticism if USF1 made it to the grid and there was no US race. Bernie is desperate to hold off having a US race because it would be a zero profit race for him. He can make so much more from another Korea, India or Russian race.

Oh dear, you've gone right off into straight jacket country now I'm afraid. There is a ton of money in the US, and more so than India, Russia or Korea(?! ) so quite why Bernie wouldn't want F1 to take off in the states is, well, anyone's guess. That's why F1 inevitably keeps going back to the US periodically. However, we're now clutching firmly at straws that aren't there to establish that Bernie caused this tin-pot outfit to go to the wall.

[segedunum]

This is just a business, a corporation, with managers. A good investor, that was more involved, would push out Windsor and Anderson, and prop up the foundation with the right people.

Which is what he's doing now. A little late, but he was perhaps a bit of a naive investor. However, it doesn't stop Peter Windsor and Ken Anderson for being responsible for the no-show and incompetence, which is what we've established over God knows how many pages. It's Chad Hurley who now seems to be trying to salvage something for the organisation, not Peter and Ken who are conspicuous by their absence, and he's the one getting the flack.

[WhiteBlue]

Your facts doesn't match. There was no basis for a business plan until USF1 got a FiA slot and signed the Concord. That only happened in August or September.

Please tell me you're having a laugh? No. It happened in July when they signed the Concorde agreement. They had months and months before then to actually get a credible operation up and running beyond some office with a telephone in it. If they couldn't do that and were basing absolutely everything on having an entry for 2010 then it shows it was just a scam and the FIA should have said no immediately.

I have checked it and signature was 31. July. That gave them August, September, October, November and half of December to do their work. In my book that is four and a half months. By mid December they were already under attack.

This was exactly the point in time when they started to build their manufacturing and development facility as documented in their first video. To kick off serious spending earlier would have been madness.

The facts are that Lotus and Virgin had similar very time frames (even tighter in the case of Lotus) and achieved their goals admirably, and planned months ahead long before they had a 2010 entry.

The difference with Virgin and Lotus is twofold. They both have rich shareholders who are seriously committed which Hurley obviously isn't. They also had organizational nuclei to start with. Nick Wirth's company was practically ready to design and build a car they only had to add the travelling racing team. Same with Lotus. Gascoyne with financial backing from Fernandez could just clear out Toyota and other shops where he had previously worked and pull together a team in next to no time. USF1 had by far the toughest job and were deserted by their financial partner when it counted.

Four months later Bernie was spreading rumors that they were in financial trouble. Those are the facts.

They were in financial trouble, and no, I'm afraid it wasn't as a consequence of what Bernie said as you so desperately, desperately want to believe. The die was already cast.

I have no idea why you want to defend the obvious incompetence that has gone on here. Are you simply unable to comprehend it?

Do I need to show you the quotes of Bernie telling the press that USF1 was in financial trouble? Link here I don't like the way you avoid a debate based on facts. My power of comprehension isn't a point of debate. We are talking of USF1 and the causes for their failure here.

Edited for adding a link.

[Pup]

WB, I think you're confusing how USF1 marketed Hurley's involvement vs what he said himself, which was essentially, "I gave them some startup cash and we'll see what they can do with it." I don't see how that's any different from Branson's relationship with Manor.

Running the team was Anderson's responsibility. Finding sponsors and drivers was Windsor's. The blame for USF1's failure falls quite clearly in their laps.

As for the rest, I think you're talking bit in circles. I mean, on the one hand, you blame Hurley for not giving them money, but then you imply that Bernie was lying when he said they were having financial troubles. I think you've got one villain too many in your argument.

I also don't see how you can so easily discount Lotus' ability to get their act together and produce a car. Sure, they hired Gascoyne - why didn't USF1? Sure they hired Toyota people - why didn't USF1? It all comes down to management and knowing what you have to do to get from point A to point B. USF1 obviously never had a handle on that.

[WhiteBlue]

WB, I think you're confusing how USF1 marketed Hurley's involvement vs what he said himself, which was essentially, "I gave them some startup cash and we'll see what they can do with it."

There is the incongruity that Hurley doesn't act like a silent start up investor. He obviously wants to form his own team. And the web site describes him as such.

I mean, on the one hand, you blame Hurley for not giving them money, but then you imply that Bernie was lying when he said they were having financial troubles. I think you've got one villain too many in your argument.

Not at all. I see that Bernie was running an agenda and Hurley wasn't on the side of his fellow directors when it counted.

[Pup]

There is the incongruity that Hurley doesn't act like a silent start up investor. He obviously wants to form his own team. And the web site describes him as such.

Huh? You just said he wasn't committed enough, and now it's his ambition that's the problem? So, he destroyed his own team so that he can form his own team?

Not at all. I see that Bernie was running an agenda and Hurley wasn't on the side of his fellow directors when it counted.

But which is it? Was Bernie lying about them not having money or not? If he wasn't, then it doesn't matter if he had an agenda or not - USF1 was in trouble.

[xpensive]

I simply cannot believe this, the farce of the century in F1, including Life Racing and Andrea Moda, has just ground to a halt, while someone on F1T is blaming the guy who actually lost money as well as becoming the village idiot?

[Richard]

None of us know Hurley's real involvement. He's been silent on that other than one tweet to say he gave them start up funding. The rest is wild guesswork, and website PR.

Equally, Branson has not bankrolled Virgin, I recall a similar report that he helped get them going, but he is not putting in much sponsorship money, just his marketing kudos and pulling power. Only Lotus can be considered to be bank rolled by their owner.

[madtown77]

All right guys, deep breath now.

All we know at this point is that USF1 hasn't conducted crash testing, may have lost its financial backing in Hurley (but we have no idea if it was for $1 million or $10 million) and that their driver is talking to FOM, either to secure his own future or to help the team (probably the former).

At this point, I might give a little credit to the rumors that USF1 and Campos will merge, running the Dallara chassis for the start of the season, maybe all of 2010.

This gives USF1 a European base of operations and a staff to run the racing portion (which is all Campos really is), while the US operations design the car.

Again, a lot of speculation and rumors. It's clear that USF1 as we knew it is dead. The question is whether Bernie will step in to broker a deal to merge the entries in exchange for getting Stefan GP on the grid.

[marcush.]

http://blog.taragana.com/e/2009/08/20/u ... son-26250/

http://paidcontent.co.uk/article/419-yo ... ial-media/


all PR blabla made up ? but not by Windsor on these two ,but by himself...

for me he is to blame.end of story he promised and did not deliver.

[WhiteBlue]

The fact that Bernie is involved in the Lopez talks stipulates that Campos and USF1 are being merged to shift one license to Stefan. That may well have been the plan since December.

[Richard]

http://blog.taragana.com/e/2009/08/20/u ... son-26250/

http://paidcontent.co.uk/article/419-yo ... ial-media/


all PR blabla made up ? but not by Windsor on these two ,but by himself...

for me he is to blame.end of story he promised and did not deliver.

There are more words about social media than money in those Hurley quotes. Says it all.

To answer you directly, that sort of quote is placed by the PR people who wrote the press release. If he'd said that in an interview then I'd give it more credance. The only direct quote we've heard from Hurley has been the one about start up funding and see what the guys do from there. He appears to be a silent partner.

edit to quote for the record:

# @JordanMCallaway Yup, gave them some initial capital to get things started. We'll see what they can do! 3:26 AM Jan 27th from web in reply to JordanMCallaway

[madtown77]

The fact that Bernie is involved in the Lopez talks stipulates that Campos and USF1 are being merged to shift one license to Stefan. That may well have been the plan since December.

It has been pretty clear that USF1 has no actual race team (or a complete car, less xpensive try to smite me), just a design center. So I suspect you are right and this was the plan.

That just leaves the money.

Who is putting up to pay the bills to Dallara and to keep the lights on at USF1 while they sort out their mess while helping Campos actually run in the races?

If it's Chad Hurley, I will be really suprised. Unless he got bit by the racing bug or suddenly sees huge potential.

[WhiteBlue]

There is the incongruity that Hurley doesn't act like a silent start up investor. He obviously wants to form his own team. And the web site describes him as such.

Huh? You just said he wasn't committed enough, and now it's his ambition that's the problem? So, he destroyed his own team so that he can form his own team?

Apparently. My impression is that Bernie loves dealing with Hurley and Stefanovic who both have significant personal wealth to play in F1. If he can extract Hurley out of the USF1 scheme and get him to run his own team with European resources it should be better for Bernie. For Hurley to control the team as a majority owner may well be incentive enough to screw the other guys.

Not at all. I see that Bernie was running an agenda and Hurley wasn't on the side of his fellow directors when it counted.

But which is it? Was Bernie lying about them not having money or not? If he wasn't, then it doesn't matter if he had an agenda or not - USF1 was in trouble.

You know very well that in the credit crunch situation news make or brake sponsorships. Irrespective of the actual situation a negative comment from Bernie is devastating and can ruin a team with less than solid finance on its own. Bernie did not need to lye. Just seeding doubt was sufficient to do serious damage.