Mercedes GP W02

[Raptor22]

Good question. Why does everyone else not have flexing wings?

Do flexing wings really exist? or are they just a figmen of overactive imaginations?
Christian Horner says the wings don't flex beyond whats allowed in the tolerance of the measurments. Internet forum members say they can see the wings flexing.
Some say they along the longuitudianl axis of the car others say thy bend across their span. Who is right?

I'm fairly certain that building a flexing wing is not just a matter of making the structure flex to a desired degree under a given load. It must also be strong enough to withstand mild impacts and have enough toughness to damp vibration.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Apparently the tests were changed again for the start of this year, and everybody expect to see the end of flexing front wings. It seems, Red Bull's trick works under the stricter tests.

[analist01]

I have a gutsy feeling that theirs something weird about RB not using KERS and their speed. The onboard message was quite clear...do NOT use KERS, negative, negative. And we all know by now that Newey doesn't like the system...so whats really going on....is it just a desperate feeling because they're just to fast or have they dont something lets just say different then the other teams. Like eddie jordan said, its 80 Pk free and Webber could have the podium if he used it. Looking forward to the chinese GP.

[siskue2005]

I have a gutsy feeling that theirs something weird about RB not using KERS and their speed. The onboard message was quite clear...do NOT use KERS, negative, negative. And we all know by now that Newey doesn't like the system...so whats really going on....is it just a desperate feeling because they're just to fast or have they dont something lets just say different then the other teams. Like eddie jordan said, its 80 Pk free and Webber could have the podium if he used it. Looking forward to the chinese GP.

I find it funny when people say everything RBR does has some evil twist in it or someone is playing raqiuem for them when they are saying "dont use KERS"

Its just simple fact that their system is not perfect....it took Mclaren and Ferrari 10 to 11 races to figure it out in 2009.
and moreover their package has some reliability issues with it

The KERS problem on Vettel's car could have lead to Dnf , thats why they were giving him strict orders not to use it!
Weber also had this problem, thats why they didnt use it in Melbourne coz they couldnot justify an unreliable system in their car wher infact they were much faster even without it !

rea this http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90626

[Ferraripilot]

The problem I have with following Red Bulls lead is this: the rake of the car is steep, it acts near enough like a self levelling suspension.
Is this really legal?
....?

It's not a moveable aero device. Simple fact is the Red Bull passes all of the FIA tests, so it's legal. I'm fed up with everybody trying to just get the Red Bull banned. There was some weight in the argument at the start, but all the other teams really should have been able to catch up now. Why don't Mercedes already have a flexing wing?

Fed up or not, it moves. Therefore as the wing is adjusting along with the rest of the car, how else can it be deemed other than moveable aero?
Im not disputing wether what Red Bull does is legal or not, the same way I didnt dispute the legal side of the DDD. What Red Bull have done is beaten the test. does not mean that the car itself is not acting as a moveable aerodynamic device. All is fair in love and war, and Red Bull deserve credit for that.

Mercedes will need to replicate the philosophy on their own car to gain anything from this season. All team will have to, the same as the DDD.
But with the W02 being short and fat as opposed to long and lithe like the Red Bull, It will take a hell of a lot of work to get right.
Raising the rear will bring up the dreaded balance issues of last year. Im pretty certain the forward section of the car can be adjusted in a straightforward fashion. But its what happens to their Balance,cooling and exhaust philosophy the moment the ass is raised.

Watching Schumacher slide around it seems the Merc has problems with rear and front end transfer, turning into oversteer on slower coners. Basically a fricking nightmare. And this is with their optimised ride height. Raising the rear may amplify these issues and will mean a change of thinking(or even staff )

In essence then, Bob Bell has a mother load of work to get through.

It may help to do like last year and add some wheelbase, which I believe they did by changing the front A-arm design. Of course the big issue is the width of the thing after that, but they do have the car packed tightly towards the center so perhaps all isn't lost.

[marekk]

Changing the rake is really not that easy to do, considering that it completely changes the aero of the car. It's only going to require a new floor and diffuser, new front wing, new beam wing and new rear wing, as all of these elements need to be optimized for a new angle of attack.

+1.

And new sidepod covers, new engine cover, new exhaust, new suspension and new packaging.
In simply words: new car.

[Joie de vivre]

Changing the rake is really not that easy to do, considering that it completely changes the aero of the car. It's only going to require a new floor and diffuser, new front wing, new beam wing and new rear wing, as all of these elements need to be optimized for a new angle of attack.

+1.

And new sidepod covers, new engine cover, new exhaust, new suspension and new packaging.
In simply words: new car.

Totally agree.

Changes must be made!

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

How to change?

We have to consider rules, and in particular the small matter of homologation.

I say use this car as a test bed for 2012, and forget about 2011. Paint it black, call it "a concept by Mercedes" and I think half the paddock would take them more seriously. Because with the W02, a silverarrow it is not.

2012 is the last year of the Mercedes F0108X, it would be fitting for Mercedes to win races in the final year of this great engine.

[Med4224]

W02 problems are:
1. Inconsistent performance and therefore flawed setup
2. It is hard on the Pirellis
3. Cooling issues
4. The rear wing issue

If someone has any info on their trouble please tell
Not opinions, but concrete information please, if any..

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

All post are pretty much speculative here. Who can say with a great degree of "correctness" exactly what the problem and solution is? Without exact data, we are only going on the naked eye and also what the team says.

My opinion for what its worth is the team should have extended or at least designed the car with a longer wheelbase. With a higher increase in minimum mass why go short?

Surely spreading the mass over a longer patch would be better suited to tyre wear? Cars with a smaller footprint but the same mass to carry will use its tyre more, or am I missing the boat entirley?

What makes it even more galling, is that they team knew tyres would be less durable this year too....

[BreezyRacer]

I calculate that by Europe we'll see Merc switching to the Renault exhaust layout. Not easy but Brawn really likes that system and they have nothing to lose by giving it a go.

There seem to be only 2 teams that can truly emulate on track conditions with their development .. Red Bull and Renault. That is a the heart of the other team's problems ..

[horse]

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 27143.html

We believe this years single diffuser will work better with a shorter wheelbase.

You do have to wonder about this decision given the designs of their rivals. Both McLaren and Red Bull may have also calculated that the floor length was not optimal with last years long wheelbase cars but then they just made it work. Red Bull stuck the cars bum in the air, McLaren cut out the sidepods and whacked on a massive Gurney, but Mercedes just didn't have the imagination for it, so it would seem.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Seems like a group decision rather than anything Eureka!

If I was wielding the axe, it would be crimson stained right now.

[analist01]

I sure would love to see Schumacher just racing one grandprix with the current redbull car, i mean if webber in a redbull can drive for wins then Schumacher would def fight for wins, but hey thats just fantasy

It such a shame that Schumacher came back and most of us we're happy, like it was some kind of dream, i mean schumacher really coming back, wow...but we are in the second year and he as not lost his talent, its just bad luck going to a team with designers that started last year with desiging the car and manage to came up with the W02, ..just imagine what they would design if they would have started later....

I will stay and believe in it, but its just the same thing as last year. You hold your hart when you see Schumacher on p7-8 and a buemi or kobayashi is behind him in stead of racing Hamilton, Vettel etc, Well, we still have many Gp's to go.

[Med4224]

I sure would love to see Schumacher just racing one grandprix with the current redbull car, i mean if webber in a redbull can drive for wins then Schumacher would def fight for wins, but hey thats just fantasy

It such a shame that Schumacher came back and most of us we're happy, like it was some kind of dream, i mean schumacher really coming back, wow...but we are in the second year and he as not lost his talent, its just bad luck going to a team with designers that started last year with desiging the car and manage to came up with the W02, ..just imagine what they would design if they would have started later....

I will stay and believe in it, but its just the same thing as last year. You hold your hart when you see Schumacher on p7-8 and a buemi or kobayashi is behind him in stead of racing Hamilton, Vettel etc, Well, we still have many Gp's to go.

yea that really hurts
if only had come back with Ferrari or something

but maybe it will be much sweeter when he beats the red bulls in a Mercedes
we still have 2012 to hope for...