Formula E

[aleks_ader]

Some interesting stuff. I hope will Sato also drive in regularly season like in old times in Aguri F-E team.

Sato, who competed in F1 from 2002 – 2008 with Jordan, BAR and Super Aguri, was also announced as one of the drivers who will assist with the development work of the new zero emission car over the coming months, together with current test driver Lucas di Grassi.

https://twitter.com/FIAformulaE/status/ ... 7869453315 https://twitter.com/FIAformulaE/status/ ... 1746032640

[aleks_ader]

Check out footage of the new Formula E car - the Spark-Renault SRT_01E - completing its successful test debut at the La Ferté Gaucher circuit near Choisy-le-Roi, France. Official test driver Lucas di Grassi is at the wheel running with a battery with just 25% of the full power.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqIsFbdLJ7k[/youtube]

Source official F-E site

[kooleracer]

Di Grassi said the gearbox works fine? I thought electric cars didnt need gearboxes.

[aleks_ader]

Di Grassi said the gearbox works fine? I thought electric cars didnt need gearboxes.

This had 2 gear or one change...

[lizardfolk]

Di Grassi said the gearbox works fine? I thought electric cars didnt need gearboxes.

Actually...

http://www.plugincars.com/efficiency-mu ... 07656.html

Di Grassi said the gearbox works fine? I thought electric cars didnt need gearboxes.

This had 2 gear or one change...

Isn't an FE car planned to have a 4 speed manual sequential gear box?

[aleks_ader]

I remebered that prototype had 2 gears. 1st up to 150 km/h, 2nd up to rev limmit.

Here i search data and i dont find exact figure for that model? It has Hewlad paddle gaerbox and that is all what i got.
http://www.formulaeracing.com/?p=91

I looked all official and web data and dont fond exact number for stat spark model...

[autogyro]

I remebered that prototype had 2 gears. 1st up to 150 km/h, 2nd up to rev limmit.

Here i search data and i dont find exact figure for that model? It has Hewlad paddle gaerbox and that is all what i got.
http://www.formulaeracing.com/?p=91

I looked all official and web data and dont fond exact number for stat spark model...

When I originally consulted with Hewland in 2010 the gear train thinking on electric racing was much the same as the road electric industry.
Many very qualified electrical engineers believed that they did not require a gearbox as such because of the flat and wide torque curve.
Many electric vehicles are still built without a gearbox.
I explained the benefits of gearing the electric motor output to what is known as the 'sweet spot' in the motors rpm range.
Tesla fitted their original prototype sportster with a two speed gearbox but later removed it because of the noise and the continual breakages.
Here I come back to my continuing argument against using the 19th century concept layshaft stepped ratio gearboxes.
For any electric car or hybrid the layshaft gearbox is totally the wrong gear train to choose.
The trick shift mechanisms fitted and the offset layshaft simply make the layshaft concept too weak and unreliable for the constantly high torque delivery of an electric motor.
Hewland elected to supply a two speed gearbox for the FE spec cars, this is probably why they have only so far tested with 25% of the cars designed power output up to now.
I have a better system if anyone out there wants to win in FE.

[Andres125sx]

I´ve always enjoiyed ICEs sound, all of them, from my first mx bike, a 125cc ktm sx to a V10 F1.

But that´s all, I enjoy it, but I would never consider it a main part of the competition. Actually I think F1 went too far with the sound, they´re risking his audience hearing with sounds well over 100dB, and IMHO that´s simply unaceptable. Well, to me and to anyone who knows anything about sound or the hearing...

I understand why people complain so much about FE sound, we humans are unwilling to any change, ok, I accept it. We´re get used to it and don´t want to change it, but that´s the only reason, there´s nothing reasonable to argue

And that´s simply because people doesn´t know how will be a quiet competition. We won´t hear the ICE engine, but we´ll hear the tires in the brakings and when they hit the throttle, or the aerodynamic sounds, and IMO that will be a lot more interesting. Now we only hear the engine, that´s all and it isn´t really showing anything interesting, an engine working, but we don´t hear anything about the driving. With electric motors we will actually hear the driving. A driver being too agressive on the brakes and on the throttle will be easy to differ just with the sound from another who´s driving smoothly. To me that will be a lot more interesting than an ICE engine screaming


I´m really looking forward FE. The push to pass with votes I think is just something to increase teh audience. This is a new championship and they need good audience to survive, so any idea helping in this aspect will be good. Once they´re stablished we can "demand" what we want, but right now there´s nothing more important than the audience numbers, if they´re low FE could be one of the shortest championships ever, they need good numbers to attract sponsors and the TV. That should be his main worry now, and the "vote to pass" idea is a good one in this respect I think. We F1 fans don´t like it, but true F1 fans are a small percentage of the audience, most people who´s not an expert will love this idea, and it will attract a lot of people I think.

If it works to attract people, increase the audience, and earn a TV broadcasting for his second seasson, it will be worth

[Tommy Cookers]

Many very qualified electrical engineers believed that they did not require a gearbox as such because of the flat and wide torque curve.
Many electric vehicles are still built without a gearbox.
I explained the benefits of gearing the electric motor output to what is known as the 'sweet spot' in the motors rpm range. .....
For any electric car or hybrid the layshaft gearbox is totally the wrong gear train to choose.
I have a better system if anyone out there wants to win in FE.

if you want some real (electrical) engineering you have to be your own EE

the 1 ratio system (no gearbox) is much harder on battery efficiency and life, because max current will be much higher
(though maybe this is ignored because any conveniently rapid battery charging anyway costs battery efficiency and life)
yes gearboxes give some benefit on the motor side also

there is a conflict between simple/cheap ways of driving the motor and actually having proper control for managing gearshifts etc
so yes, planetary (brakeband) gear shifting seems the right thing
there must be 50 million motors with integral (single ratio) planetary gearheads made annually ?
maybe their makers don't trust the EV thing as a worthwhile market

[Giles_Irvine]

First post so be kind!

I can't wait for Formula E, it should be really interesting!

Mr Autogyro, can you explain further what you mean by a motor's "sweet spot"?

I explained the benefits of gearing the electric motor output to what is known as the 'sweet spot' in the motors rpm range.

[autogyro]

First post so be kind!

I can't wait for Formula E, it should be really interesting!

Mr Autogyro, can you explain further what you mean by a motor's "sweet spot"?

I explained the benefits of gearing the electric motor output to what is known as the 'sweet spot' in the motors rpm range.

http://www.evo-electric.com/inc/files/A ... t-V1.1.pdf

[Tommy Cookers]

this seems a good time to emphasise that an electric motor is not a magic device

it develops torque proportional to the current that it draws
this current will be proportional to the difference between supply voltage and 'back emf' that is proportional to rpm
so if we have the common arrangement of a fixed supply the current and torque will be high from rest and fall as rpm rises
the motor will have 'losses' that are proportional to current ie some electrical energy is turned into heat
so the motor can be used to give a certain power by running slowly at high torque/current with high losses (eg no gearbox)
here the motor might be 80% efficient ie the 20% will (mostly) be waste heat
or give the same power by being allowed to run faster at lower torque/current with lower losses (eg with gearbox)
here the motor might be 95% efficient ie waste heat will only be 5%
the rpm/load range that gives eg 95% efficiency would be 'the sweet spot' that the system would be designed to use
typically a design could not be run continuously in the 80/20 spot, it would overheat (eg as a starter motor can)

so the way to best use an electric motor is (as with an ICE) to run it at higher rpm (have a gearbox)

motors (and generators) are rated for use in this favourable 'sweet spot' region
though they can in principle be operated temporarily at much higher torque (and power if high rpm is reached at this torque)
though this has an overheating impact on battery and, particularly, on other non-battery motor drives

so as in new F1, liquid cooling of motor/generators and even their drives is liberating to the designer
as is a blank chequebook

[Cold Fussion]

I would say the noise adds quite a lot to the spectacle, especially when you're track-side.

Does it have to be deafening though? Wouldn't it be refreshing to be able to hear the PA so you know what's happening in the race? It's not like Formula E will be silent - you'll hear the noise of the motors, the gearboxes, the brakes, the tyres on the road and the air passing over the bodywork. I think it'll be quite refreshing.

Does it have to be current levels of formula 1 loud? God no, everything requiring ear plugs is by definition too loud (though one could argue it's part of the experience). I think the limit of loudness should be around Porsche carrera cup level, loud enough but you don't need earplugs to be comfortable trackside.

I personally find the noise of electric motor highly irritating, along with most other high pitch whining noises. I watched the video posted and found it quite irritating, even worse than the touring car onboard videos with the whining straight cut gears.

[autogyro]

I find it fascinating that so many people believe that the in car videos of formula E cars or even F1 cars include an accurate reproduction of the actual ambient sound of the cars on track.

The capability of the camera microphone is restricted to about half the sound frequencies from the car.
The recorded sound is then played back on equally restrictive speakers on the TV.

Comments that judge the sound of these racing cars from people who only watch the racing on TV are pointless.

However, going by the lemming like appreciation of modern transmitted music in low quality (mp3) sound, where almost all the mid range frequencies are dumbed down like the audience to allow quantity over quality it does not surprise me.

[Tim.Wright]

You don't need 6.1 surround sound at 192kHz to realise that these cars make an extremely irritating sound.