Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2015

[djos]

In 2014 the worst engine on the grid was Ferrari, this was highlighted by the fact that Toro Rosso comfortably destroyed Sauber, despite Sauber being clearly the superior team in previous years, and being faster than Toro Rosso so far this year (now that Ferrari have improved their PU significantly).

Fernando managed 2 podiums and a stack of top 5 results in the Ferrari.

[raymondu999]

In 2014 the worst engine on the grid was Ferrari, this was highlighted by the fact that Toro Rosso comfortably destroyed Sauber, despite Sauber being clearly the superior team in previous years, and being faster than Toro Rosso so far this year (now that Ferrari have improved their PU significantly).

Fernando managed 2 podiums and a stack of top 5 results in the Ferrari.

The Renault engine managed even better

[FoxHound]

I didn't even know this happened....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull_R ... 011_season

Is this an indicator of what is to come, I wonder?

[Kiril Varbanov]

From his stand, Horner is right to be mad. That means: Red Bull are behind and have absolutely no hopes for title. It is also true that FIA has done quite a lot to ban some of the stuff RBR did. That's true, right? Renault's engine was lacking a bit of HP, but it had very good drive-ability, lower cooling requirements and was in general lighter tool to use plus some fuel efficiency.
So, Horner may not have chosen the best way to express his disappointment, but in essence he is right.
N.B. I'm not defending him or the team - this is neutral review.

On the other hand - Mercedes did nothing wrong (bend rules, etc). They just did excellent job in all areas. Red Bull, on the other hand, did some stuff that were considered on-the-line legal, right? They had special team to examine the regulations and find potential loopholes. Is this the correct, dignified approach? Who knows...

Red Bull, however, are slowly preparing the team for sale. They knew they had no championship hopes once they lost Webber, then Newey, then Vettel. My respect for Dan, but you need machinery. Why complain now? Team up with Honda - they know what Mercedes are doing!

Finally, we have looming dominance (1 second advantage), which is unlikely to be removed in one season, especially with the limited tokens. Is that good for F1, fans, sponsors? Not really. Unless, of course, you are Mercedes fan.

So, final summation - something may happen quite soon.

[Cold Fussion]

I'd be surprised if all the V8 engines weren't at the minimum 95kg weight.

[turbof1]

So, final summation - something may happen quite soon.

I hope not another knee-jerk "let's throw everything overboard again" reaction. If the past is anything to go by, that would raise costs substantially and would probably just create another dominant team with the other failing the catch-up game.

IMO, what should happen is loosening up some of the rules. Especially on engine development, with more engines allowed, or atleast a few engine jokers involved, or atleast repairs on core elements allowed.

Renault is now in a position where they are paying twice for their screw up: they are loosing out while their power unit is uncompetitive & unreliable, AND because they are unreliable they'll pay this with grid penalties later on due extra power units involved. IMO, being uncompetitive is enough punishment.

[Juzh]

In 2014 the worst engine on the grid was Ferrari

Nope. Debatable.

[diffuser]

So, final summation - something may happen quite soon.

I hope not another knee-jerk "let's throw everything overboard again" reaction. If the past is anything to go by, that would raise costs substantially and would probably just create another dominant team with the other failing the catch-up game.

IMO, what should happen is loosening up some of the rules. Especially on engine development, with more engines allowed, or atleast a few engine jokers involved, or atleast repairs on core elements allowed.

Renault is now in a position where they are paying twice for their screw up: they are loosing out while their power unit is uncompetitive & unreliable, AND because they are unreliable they'll pay this with grid penalties later on due extra power units involved. IMO, being uncompetitive is enough punishment.

Yep agreed. Testing is so restrictive that the test bed has become the race.

There is no guarantee that Honda will be Merc's equal in power/efficiency. One can only hope.

They need to loosen the rules up to allow these teams the ability to catchup. Renault is 1.5 seconds down plus they're very likely to incur penalties for the use of a fifth engine. It doesn't make sense to further penalise a weaker rival (kick him when he's down). Those rules only make sense if the PUs are close in ability.

The whole thing about Merc having their customer teams run a detuned PU should also be stopped. They should be running the exact same spec. Otherwise, Ron Dennis is right, a customer team can never win. I always admired the way Renault treated all their teams equally.

There were many suggestions last year that Merc spent a lot more money on engine development than anyone else. That's kind of like bending the rules.

[diffuser]

How does engine contracts work? Are they done on a yearly basis? Could Renault if they choose, decide to not supply Red Bull next year for example?

They are contracted to supply RBR until the end of the 2016 season, they can choose not to renew without penalty obviously but I would have thought there would be penalties from either side if one wishes to part company early although they could agree to go their separate ways if it suits both parties. I think that's a round about way of suggesting all options and that I really don't know

Aren't Renault Supplying only RBR and Torro? They got to supply to someone.

The switch From Ferrari to Renault PU @ Torro doesn't look so good now does it? Eggs in one basket kind of thing.

[lebesset]

Somebody at Renault (with or without RedBullRacing's consent) made the decision not to use all tokens. At or even before the first test of 2014 they knew they had a lot of development to do to catch up Ferrari and Mercedes. How is it possible then that they, with a whole years of development used the least tokens of the three plus putting non tested hardware on the engine for the first race

renault made a sound decision , unfortunately a little late ; they decided to bring in external expertise to help develop the engine ...Ilmor ; unfortunately those are not yet ready , but tokens had to be reserved for them ; bearing in mind that they were some 60bhp down compared to ferrari's 40bhp they had to do something in response to RBR pressure...they may have had the joint best chassis before they uprated the engine , but unfortunately the software turned it into a point and squirt car negating the extra 60bhp they found by taking chances with parts that are not fully developed ...hence the derating
but rumours of their demise are exaggerated , it will take a while to sort out their problems but when they do ...and they will..together with the ilmor updates they will be fighting for the vice champion's spot again ....however I am afraid that signs are that ferrari will have too much of a gap by then

[FoxHound]

In 2014 the worst engine on the grid was Ferrari

Nope. Debatable.

Nope, Factual.
2 Renault engined cars finished above the factory Ferrari's.

And if we have a look at the like for like comparison that alot of people love to do...

Ferrari customer Sauber 2013 results: 57 points and 7th in the standings.
Renault customer Torro Rosso 2013 results: 33 points and 8th in the standings.

Ferrari customer Sauber 2014 results: 0 points and 10th in the standings.
Renault customer Torro Rosso 2014 results: 30 points and 7th in the standings.

[SectorOne]

Maybe the FIA should declare that Honda and Renault gets a whole season with unlimited tokens.
Totally unfair to Mercedes and Ferrari but that would be one way to get them back on their feet quicker.

[FoxHound]

Maybe the FIA should declare that Honda and Renault gets a whole season with unlimited tokens.
Totally unfair to Mercedes and Ferrari but that would be one way to get them back on their feet quicker.

Personally I feel its better to keep the token allocation as it is. BUT, allow Renault and Honda to implement the changes outside of the 4 engines a season rule.
For instance, Renault have a current issue, allow the fix of the part without incurring a penalty on the engine as a whole.

Its the way forward.

[Manoah2u]

i remember renault was given some benefit with the v8 engines since they claimed it was 'down' on power compared to merc and ferrari and toyota back in, what? 2009, 2010? Meanwhile, they went to be untouchable 4 years in a row.

i say leave it as it is and let renault do their work and let RB stop the complaining.

Why is it so important to have RedBull as the champion? give somebody else a break, that's racing. Meanwhile, they were 2nd in the WCC and 3rd in the WDC just last year so it wasnt that bad at all with the Renault powerplant.

They did something seriously wrong this year, but so be it.

[djos]

In 2014 the worst engine on the grid was Ferrari

Nope. Debatable.

Nope, Factual.
2 Renault engined cars finished above the factory Ferrari's.

And if we have a look at the like for like comparison that alot of people love to do...

Ferrari customer Sauber 2013 results: 57 points and 7th in the standings.
Renault customer Torro Rosso 2013 results: 33 points and 8th in the standings.

Ferrari customer Sauber 2014 results: 0 points and 10th in the standings.
Renault customer Torro Rosso 2014 results: 30 points and 7th in the standings.

Have a look at reliability and you'll see that the Renault PU was by far the lest reliable of the 2 PU's.

Ps good work ignoring lotus, using them to compare against Sauber would be a much better comparison as both are generally scraping the barrel for funding, Toro Rosso isn't.