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iotar__ wrote:
Next time Rosberg is behind Hamilton and quicker I fully expect Wolff to tell him to get out of the way and Hamilton obliging. Anything else would be a clear example of unequal treatment of Mercedes drivers.
And undecency from Hamilton. I do expect as well to return the favour.
I just wanted to say that I think Rosberg made a mistake by letting Hamilton by - this might come back to haunt him.
At the same time, no one is bigger than the team, and given Rosberg's contract is up for renewal and the Mercedes is still by far the quickest and most accomplished car, it equally would be unwise not to obey orders.
As for calling Mercedes liars; I think there is a difference between issuing team-orders when
1.) both are on different strategies
2.) on the same strategy but one of both has a damage or is fighting issues
3.) the respective positions of both and the prospects for that race, also their standings in the WDC
There are different view points here. For Mercedes, they are a big team with hundredths of employees. The consideration can not only be that of both their drivers, but also on the team and every single team member who has worked hard to get the best possible result. At the same time, both these drivers are in contention and likely only in contention of one another for the WDC this year. Every point counts.
One can't ask the driver to sabotage the other ones race if he is having issues. Imagine Hamilton having an issue on his car from the lead and then taking out his team-mate in a desperate move to prevent losing points to him. Such a move of course would be forbidden under the current rule set, but given on a unique track like Monaco where overtaking is next to impossible, the damage could be comparable if the driver with issues is holding up the other driver severely.
It's unfortunate that it had to come to this. Even if team orders hadn't been issued at Monaco, I do wonder if Mercedes was also worried that the lack of pace by Nico would eventually lead to a risky overtake that might end in the DNF of both cars again - something that would be deemed unacceptable after Barcelona. On the other hand, it may have been clear that Hamilton would have gotten past anyway eventually - either through strategy by pitting him first, or by the quicker cars making up that ground by staying out longer and making up that ground like that. If the outcome looked to be that certain, one could argue that the issued team-order was minimal, but still rather substantial given the WDC race and resulting point swing.
It's a difficult choice. I do wonder if Mercedes had made the same call if i.e. both drivers were more equal on points. One could also question if Hamilton receiving his end of very bad luck in the majority of races so far this year played a role too. I'm not going to argue "right" or "wrong" - from a team-perspective, it absolutely was the right call, from Rosbergs point of view, it absolutely wasn't. Fair play to him for complying. As I said, I think his contract negotiations and maybe a bit of aftermath from Barcelona might have played a role in it.
And Iotar, I'll say it again (because you continue to bring up Hungary 2014) - Hungary was different because both were on the same strategy and Lewis was ahead. At that point, Mercedes had a choice to either pit Rosberg or Hamilton (or both) for fresher tires. They decided to do this only on Rosbergs car who then subsequently closed in on Hamilton again. To ask him to then make room is unfair because they gave Rosberg the "better" strategy even though he was behind (at that point) and didn't deserve the 'better strategy' given his position. From the best of my knowledge, Lewis didn't outright refuse the team-order, but said something along the lines of "he should get closer and at least try" or something. If they had pitted both, both cars would have been quicker and might have challenged for the win and the respective positions would have been unchanged.
Anyway, Monaco is a unique track. I don't think this situation applies to any other GP because in any other GP, if there had been such a pace difference between both Mercedes drivers, I'm fairly confident team-orders wouldn't have been necessary. Therefore, this situation was quite unique.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II #Team44 supporter
iotar__ wrote:Firstly unquestionable fact: Wolff and Mercedes team are liars: "We cannot ask either driver to give up positions or jeopardise their own championship chances for the benefit of the team." They just did that to Rosberg in Monaco. Pretending it was his choice and he had other options is particularly low and worse than lying itself but that is just an opinion .
I only wish they'd stopped this nauseating back-patting. A driver that cuts off (Bahrain '14 - fact also know as event that happened whether you like it or not), pushes off track (Suzuka, USA - fact), crashes into team mate (fact), ignores team orders and ruins team's chance for a win (Hungary '14) is full of thank yous and gentleman this and that. How about you live by those "gentlemen" rules yourself? Talk is worthless.
Next time Rosberg is behind Hamilton and quicker I fully expect Wolff to tell him to get out of the way and Hamilton obliging. Anything else would be a clear example of unequal treatment of Mercedes drivers.
Talking everyday on many topics about 2014 incidents will not guarantee any political or behavior success in favor of Rosberg. Hamilton did some bad moves ok but for many observers they were aggressive racing offenses or defenses.
Rosberg and associates are thinking that be aggressive equals throwing people out of the track insanely. Like watching
Holyfield vs Tyson 05s round. Even if your want to show people that you re agressive you should be on the track defending or attacking as far as you can using the regulations.
Why the hell should I receive team order to give up my position when your still 10s behind me. You deserves to pass so keep me under pressure thats simple ! (For God sake, Can someone please tell me how may times Rosberg was behind Lewis and faster than him ?)
Rosberg didn't show any pace yesterday and what because his also good enough he should block Hamilton ? Why don't you try to close the gap to Ric instead ?
The most funniest thing: Wolff and Mercedes team are liars :..." I really want to know in which part ? If you are talking about someone who s still leading the championship now, for me it just reveal how weak is Rosberg. I can't imagine Redbull or Ferrari still thinking that one of their driver will win that if it was lewis ahead...
“And suddenly I realized that I was no longer driving the car consciously. I was driving it by a kind of instinct, only I was in a different dimension.”
― Ayrton Senna
Mercedes made the right decision for the team yesterday, then had a lot of luck with Lewis being able to nurse the wets for as long as he did, then do the same with the Ultra softs and then the pit stop calamity Red Bull had sealed the victory.
Mercedes only care about one thing - Winning. They might be economical with the truth at times for PR and image reasons.
I like Nico and Lewis, and I've frankly gotten tired of all the belly aching over the pair. They've both made
dumb decisions in the last few years. The luck has so far been with Lewis on the title front, though with his PU woes that may turn towards Nico. Anyway I'm quite pleased Lewis is only 1 race win behind Nico in the championship now, should spice the rest of the season up. Especially if Red Bull continue to improve.
I think Mercedes only really had 1 option and that was to tell Rosberg to let Hamilton pass. The proof of that is where Rosberg finished the race. Even without RBR's pit stop faux pas Hamilton would have finished 2nd. Had Lewis been stuck beind Nico until the pit-stops that would seem to have been unlikely.
Just proves that Nico is a team player and I would like to think that, positions reversed, Lewis would have done the same....but then I'm struggling to imagine Lewis being that slow in those conditions...
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iotar__ wrote:
Next time Rosberg is behind Hamilton and quicker I fully expect Wolff to tell him to get out of the way and Hamilton obliging. Anything else would be a clear example of unequal treatment of Mercedes drivers.
And undecency from Hamilton. I do expect as well to return the favour.
IF.... there is another car in front which is getting away because of VERY VERY SLOW Hamilton AND Rosberg is massively quick and can genuinely challenge the rival team driver getting away, then Yes.
From the start of the race it seemed we were suffering it all over again. Ricciardo was just pulling away and Nico couldn't do that. The reason for that, we believe, was tyre temperature. The way in which Ricciardo was pulling away was clear that not reversing the situation between Nico and Lewis would definitely lose us the race. We actually waited for quite a while – giving Nico more laps for the tyre to come in – but it didn't happen. Then we finally decided to call it because Nico's pace was so much slower, and in the end it proved to be the right decision.
Strange how Nico had the same problem with Wet and Dry tyres, Lewis finished and could see Nico in front on the track was how bad Nico was. Surely Tyre temp can have been the issue on all tyres ?
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NathanOlder wrote:Strange how Nico had the same problem with Wet and Dry tyres, Lewis finished and could see Nico in front on the track was how bad Nico was. Surely Tyre temp can have been the issue on all tyres ?
I was wondering if he had a damaged/cracked chassis?
NathanOlder wrote:Strange how Nico had the same problem with Wet and Dry tyres, Lewis finished and could see Nico in front on the track was how bad Nico was. Surely Tyre temp can have been the issue on all tyres ?
I was wondering if he had a damaged/cracked chassis?
It is indeed quite strange, that on a circuit where Nico always did great, he struggled.
But, on the other hand, he isn't known to be a excellent rider in the rain, more Prost then Senna.
Plus he hit the wall on Saturday, on the same spot as Verstappen, that might have freaked him out a bit as well.
And in Monaco, I imagine, if you are out of rhythm somewhere during the weekend, its very hard to regain the confidence, especially during a race itself.
But, together will all the crazy stuff the whole weekend, it's Monaco in the rain, if you have a good result, celebrate it, if you didn't or put it in the wall, shake it off and move on.
NathanOlder wrote:Strange how Nico had the same problem with Wet and Dry tyres, Lewis finished and could see Nico in front on the track was how bad Nico was. Surely Tyre temp can have been the issue on all tyres ?
I was wondering if he had a damaged/cracked chassis?
Whenever there was an issue with the car, Mercedes have come out quick and explained the problem. But this time, there hasn't been any statement, makes it safe to assume there was no issue with the car. It's been quite a while after the race and sufficient time to have done the analysis and make a media statement.
NathanOlder wrote:Strange how Nico had the same problem with Wet and Dry tyres, Lewis finished and could see Nico in front on the track was how bad Nico was. Surely Tyre temp can have been the issue on all tyres ?
I was wondering if he had a damaged/cracked chassis?
Whenever there was an issue with the car, Mercedes have come out quick and explained the problem. But this time, there hasn't been any statement, makes it safe to assume there was no issue with the car. It's been quite a while after the race and sufficient time to have done the analysis and make a media statement.
Maybe there is a connection to Nico's contract negotiations? Might be easier now to argument why he gets less money than Lewis.
NathanOlder wrote:Strange how Nico had the same problem with Wet and Dry tyres, Lewis finished and could see Nico in front on the track was how bad Nico was. Surely Tyre temp can have been the issue on all tyres ?
I was wondering if he had a damaged/cracked chassis?
Whenever there was an issue with the car, Mercedes have come out quick and explained the problem. But this time, there hasn't been any statement, makes it safe to assume there was no issue with the car. It's been quite a while after the race and sufficient time to have done the analysis and make a media statement.
While you're on the money, several times in recent years teams have gone several races before discovering a damaged chassis- RBR in 2010 with Vettel, and Merc in 2013 with Hamilton. It was just a speculative thought as he wasn't as quick as usual in the dry either.
It might give Lewis the chance to close the gap to Nico yet again and we know that Lewis is mighty in Montreal. I expect nothing more than a win on Sunday for Lewis.
NathanOlder wrote:Strange how Nico had the same problem with Wet and Dry tyres, Lewis finished and could see Nico in front on the track was how bad Nico was. Surely Tyre temp can have been the issue on all tyres ?
I was wondering if he had a damaged/cracked chassis?
Whenever there was an issue with the car, Mercedes have come out quick and explained the problem. But this time, there hasn't been any statement, makes it safe to assume there was no issue with the car. It's been quite a while after the race and sufficient time to have done the analysis and make a media statement.
Maybe its just a trick from Mercedes to put Nico under pressure regarding the contract negotiations? But no, that cannot happen to Nico right? Stuff like this only happens to Lewis.
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