2017 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai 07-09 April

[theblackangus]

People have this idea that a broken leg is the same thing as a severe head injury.

I think that not a single one allover the forum has this idea.

this pointless post is plain cyberbullying

If you think that is "cyberbullying", then I think you have never been bullied.

On the point of medical facilities:
Having a variety of multi-million dollar machines "MRI, CT, Xray, Ultrasound, etc" and the computers to run them is expensive.
They would have to be torn down and re-setup each race.
They would have to be re-calibrated each race after movement (which is not a quick simple process and requires expensive tools for each machine)
Setting up a surgical clean room is a complicated task that needs to be done very carefully. (This isn't Mash)
There is all the equipment and medicine for surgery.
The people to run and calibrate the machines have a sum annual salary of many times the machine itself, and skills are not cross applicable in many cases.
Then having likely 4-5 top of the field doctors on staff for each race is a hefty cost. (Neurologist, Surgical of multiple sorts, nerve specialist, anesthesiologists, Spinal, etc + assisting staff)
Oh also likely spare parts needed for the machines if something is wrong with one, can't just run to the hardware store to pickup something.
And likely many things my "un-educated on medical stuff ass" hasn't even thought of.

So if its ok to make each race cost millions more to host then be my guest. Just don't complain when the GA tickets cost 500$.

I'll wager that *no* sport has a full medical facility on site.

People need to learn to ask questions before they are critical, especially on things they don't know about.
Understand and then form an opinion, not vice-versa. Most things seem simple until you really start thinking about the details are learning more, then complexity rears it's ugly head.



Back on topic:
I just hope we get some more good battles between the big 3 and an entertaining mid-field race.
Go Williams!

[Wass85]

What would be so hard about having the facilities at the circuit? They could easily afford it I should imagine?

A good MRI machine is something like 2+ Million to buy, and that doesn't include the skilled technicians and doctors you need to run and maintain it. It's not financially feasible for a circuit to have a fully equipped and staffed trauma center on site. A lot of small cities don't even have one.

Maybe not but it's feasible for F1 to have a mobile trauma centre that can go to every Grand Prix?

[Phil]

I am disappointed of the suspension of FP1 and FP2 like everyone, but I understand the safety concerns and I also can be a realist in expectations of the FIA.

The farce IMO is that the sessions were suspended on the grounds of the medical helicopter not being able to land at the designated hospital, all while the media helicopter was happily circling the track from overhead and broadcasting live pictures during the entire session.

As a spectator, buying expensive tickets and taking part in what is most likely the one unique event of the year, I think I'd be quite frustrated too. The problem here isn't the FIA directive that enforces a venue to take pre defined required measures on the grounds of safety (e.g. that an adequate hospital can be reached within 20 minutes), but that the venue itself didn't take these precautions. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it probably happens quite often that the (medical) helicopter can't be used to land at the local hospital due to weather, fog or smog, in which case, people will just use the next best thing on the occasion when an accident happens. When there is an event of the scope and prestige and magnitude of F1 being held in your city however, I would expect at least a backup plan of some sort (e.g. be prepared to divert traffic to enable to take an ambulance to the nearest hospital) to go forward.

As I said, if the weather is simply horrific like in Malaysia a couple of years ago, that is another topic and the consequences pretty much unavoidable then... but this isn't the case here, is it?

Really unbelievable post.

100% proves the problems with F1 is the fans.

They will complain about anything.

The weather isn't a matter of life or death for any fan, not a single one.

Yet it is a matter of life or death for those who go out to entertain us.

How dare we complain about something we literally spend nothing on. A few hundred bucks? That's pennies at the end of the day.

Life is priceless and most people in the paddock driver or not have dedicated their lives to F1 and don't deserve to have it put in jeapordy to make some fans who have no clue happy.

Woah there buddy, i suggest reading my post again.

1.) the issue clearly is not with the FIAs safety mandate.

2.) clearly we dont want drivers to take more risks than they already do. Certainly no one expects them to race while safety of the drivers can not be guaranteed.

3.) the issue outlined in the post above is specifically talking about the venue not having an apparent backup plan and being reliant on the weather situation of the hospital 38kms away.

[theblackangus]

3.) the issue outlined in the post above is specifically talking about the venue not having an apparent backup plan and being reliant on the weather situation of the hospital 38kms away.

What would you propose?
It doesn't seem realistic to shut down traffic to the hospital from the track, then you are just putting other people at a great inconvenience, best case, or worst case putting others lives at risk if the road block causes an ambulance to be late or backed up because of the irregular traffic flow.

Short of shutting down traffic for the duration of the race, you cannot guarantee an ambulance wont meet with traffic that will cause it take longer than that alloted (and rightly show) time period. Trying to do that on demand is rolling the dice.

[notsofast]

Trying to do that on demand is rolling the dice.

I think that's precisely the point that Phil is arguing. Assuming that it is true that this kind of weather is not unusual for this area, the venue should have had a plan. And the plan could have been as simple as, if the weather is bad on Sunday, we race on Saturday. It really seems that there was no plan of any kind. Which is why decisions are now being made "on demand".

[theblackangus]

Trying to do that on demand is rolling the dice.

I think that's precisely the point that Phil is arguing. Assuming that it is true that this kind of weather is not unusual for this area, the venue should have had a plan. And the plan could have been as simple as, if the weather is bad on Sunday, we race on Saturday. It really seems that there was no plan of any kind. Which is why decisions are now being made "on demand".

I was referring to shutting down the traffic on demand, rather than making a call on demand.

It was proposed to have the race on Saturday, and apparently that wasn't a valid alternative for whatever reason. And I would guess that the venue itself doesn't make this choice.

So from the venue/promoter perspective - are there really other options? They seem to be at the mercy of the FIA/Teams.
I haven't seen many races pulled forward, just usually moved to Monday.

Any movement of the race (forward or backward) means alot of people who bought tickets wont be able to make the race.

As far as the weather being "usual" the race has been held here for many years w/o a problem, so I wouldn't call it usual.

So again - What can the venue do that would solve the issue w/o making some demographic upset?

Sometimes things have to happen in inconvenient ways, or not at all due to circumstance.

Moving the race forward and screwing alot of people because something *might* happen isn't a good answer.

The only reasonable thing to do, that I can see, is moving the race to monday (or later race day) if the weather at race time *is* too bad for the emergency vehicle.

I would gladly welcome some alternative that has less friction to all involved, but what else can be done - especially by the venue/promoter itself?

[F1NAC]

Arghhhhhhhhhhhh live timing again !!

[Sevach]

Ferrari looks very good again, Vettel might even be hiding something, he made a good S1 on his second lap, but then failed to improve, his lap also came fairly early in the session.
Are we gonna have an inquiry on the Mercedes T-Wing? Bottas broke it clean off just out of the pits.
Good performance by Williams, even Stroll is looking good.

[SectorOne]

People have this idea that a broken leg is the same thing as a severe head injury.

I think that not a single one allover the forum has this idea.

this pointless post is plain cyberbullying

"Cyberbullying" is when a child, preteen or teen is tormented, threatened, harassed, humiliated, embarrassed or otherwise targeted by another child, preteen or teen using the Internet, interactive and digital technologies or mobile phones. It has to have a minor on both sides, or at least have been instigated by a minor against another minor.

I must appologize, i did not realize i was talking to a child.

[Artur Craft]

Ok, I take back my claim of Vettel 0.5s behind Ham in QLF. Ferrari looks very strong and I guess they might get the pole

[Fifty]

Sky sports pundits made an interesting point.
There is a hospital much closer that has all of the features, surgeons and equipment needed. It's closer and has a helipad at ground level which is clear for landing.
It's the hospital that all the other support racers would use if necessary.

The hospital the FIA contracted with for the SOLE use of the F1 drivers is the one that is fogged in. That is the one with the helipad on the roof that is unable to be clearly landed on.

So basically FIA said that the F1 drivers can't use the same hospital the rest of the drivers in the support races use.

That seems like a load of crap unless there was an injury in a pre event...then you would use the secondary hospital.

It's a bit of premedonna crap if you ask me.

[Moctecus]

There is a hospital much closer that has all of the features, surgeons and equipment needed.

Not quite true:

In addition, a second hospital is available just five kilometres from the track, with facilities for most circumstances, but does not have the neurological department that the main designated hospital has. However, arrangements are being made to transfer the necessary equipment.

[ClarkBT11]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... se-gp-runs

The FIA has arranged for a police escort to be on standby to ensure the F1 Chinese Grand Prix won't be unable to run because the medical helicopter can't operate.

Friday's first free practice session was disrupted, and the second cancelled entirely, because the helicopter could not land near the hospital 38km away in Shanghai thanks to visibility problems.

But the FIA is understood to have arranged for the police escort to be read to ensure a rapid road transfer to hospital should similar problems strike on Sunday.

The FIA's safety regulations do allow transfer by road, but Appendix H of the International Sporting Code stipulates this is on the proviso "that it can be reached in approximately 20 minutes (except for serious burns), regardless of the weather and road traffic conditions (except in a case of force majeure)".

While this transfer time could not be guaranteed on Friday, meaning cars could not run during much of practice, the police escort will mean this problem is avoided on race day.

A second hospital is available just 5km from the track that does not have the neurological department that the selected hospital has, but arrangements are being made to transfer the necessary equipment.

The weather forecast suggests the threat of similar problems with low cloud striking on Sunday is low, thanks to higher winds.

[matt_b]

Ok, I take back my claim of Vettel 0.5s behind Ham in QLF. Ferrari looks very strong and I guess they might get the pole

They were fastest last year in qualifying but both drivers made a mistake especially Kimi at the hairpin, as long as they do clean laps I think they have the front row, but tomorrow is a different story with the rain.

[atanatizante]

FP3 lap times from Ricci, Vettel, Raikk, Hamy, Max and Bottas


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