2022 car comparison thread

[lucafo]

The Miami race threw up something that I think is very interesting as far as suspension behaviour is concerned.
Watching the Ferrari following the RedBull through the chicane shows up a stark difference between the two.
The bump at the second apex caused the Ferrari to bounce fairly violently, suggesting that they have very stiff springs fitted; the RedBull, however, seemed to absorb the bump very equally across the whole rear of the car. We have seen images of the RedBull rear suspension, it features a fairly spectacular anti-roll bar, and the behaviour exhibited by the car backs this up.
The Racecar Engineering interview with Adrian Newey brings up the topic of the cars being particularly front limited this year, and that he was very involved with the suspension design. Tightening up the roll at the rear of the car should help to balance out that front limited behaviour.
It is almost as though they have created something that behaves like a De-Dion system at the rear of the car, but within the regulations regarding suspension construction.
The very tight ARB, coupled with comparatively low spring rates, is a fairly ‘out of the box’ direction to take.
Coupled with the multi-link front suspension, with what seems to be an upper leaf spring with two pivot locations, they have a second ‘out of the box’ solution.
You could say that they seem to have come up with a new way to create an old (supposedly out of date) solution, but it seems to really work well for them.
They are also apparently using Multimatic spool valve technology in their dampers.

Hello, Stu.
Do you mean this valve?

It sounds fantastic! Could control rebound even in high loads and has a lot of tuning setups!


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[Stu]

I think that is it. It is nothing that RedBull are shouting about, but Multimatic have posted on Linkdin that it is on the car.

[Henri]

[matteosc]

Interesting post, I think it belongs more here.

[NicoS]

Interesting post, I think it belongs more here.

yes more floor exposed to the camera. so from that angle you see more floor.
Sidepod obscuring view does not mean no floor... that is just a lazy assumption.
If I had to sit under an umbrella with only my legs exposed to an aerial photo, would you then proceed to assume have no torso?
Under the side pod of RB there is still floor, all nicely exposed to managed airflow...

But, if it will make you happy I can pretend that MB has the biggest shiniest floor....

[dialtone]

Interesting post, I think it belongs more here.

yes more floor exposed to the camera. so from that angle you see more floor.
Sidepod obscuring view does not mean no floor... that is just a lazy assumption.
If I had to sit under an umbrella with only my legs exposed to an aerial photo, would you then proceed to assume have no torso?
Under the side pod of RB there is still floor, all nicely exposed to managed airflow...

But, if it will make you happy I can pretend that MB has the biggest shiniest floor....

i don't care about this argument, ultimately it doesn't matter to me what Merc does this year, but this is a non sequitur. The engine cover and sidepods aren't just laid over the floor, they are screwed on the floor and obviously provide support for it.

If you want to hold this argument, and you may have reason, I think a better place to start would be to say that the perimeter of the sidepods on the floor is roughly in the same place across all cars, few cm difference at most, I don't know if it's true or false but imho it's more reasonable than what you are trying to say here with the umbrella.

Anyway keep going and don't mind me .

[Jolle]

If you look at the picture above, you actually see that the RedBull has more floor exposed then the Mercedes. With the extreme side pods of the W13, they take up some floor at the front, where RedBull has all of it's "bulge" above the floor.
It looks a bit like the opposite what we've seen in the past years, where Mercedes managed the air around the side pods, raising everything up as high as possible or get stuff out of the way to have a clear path from the neutral section at the front wing to the diffuser, around the side pods where RedBull had a much more "over the side pods, down towards the diffuser" approach.

[Vanja #66]

Front of the floor is partially loaded by downforce and partially by lift (high pressure between leading edge vanes). Rear part of the floor, where the diffuser kick start, is where the floor is the most loaded (only downforce, no lift) and where it deforms the most. And without a doubt, this is where W13 flexes the most compared to other cars. Alfa Romeo brought a slight upgrade to sidepods to stiffen this exact area in Imola.

[SirBastianVettel]

Front of the floor is partially loaded by downforce and partially by lift (high pressure between leading edge vanes). Rear part of the floor, where the diffuser kick start, is where the floor is the most loaded (only downforce, no lift) and where it deforms the most. And without a doubt, this is where W13 flexes the most compared to other cars. Alfa Romeo brought a slight upgrade to sidepods to stiffen this exact area in Imola.

Excuse my perhaps stupid question, but it seems to my untrained CFD eyes that the Red Bull might be generating more down-force in the middle of the car compared to Merdedes who generates most down-force at the rear of the floor.

Would you say that this is correct or am I spewing complete nonsense?

[Vanja #66]

Excuse my perhaps stupid question, but it seems to my untrained CFD eyes that the Red Bull might be generating more down-force in the middle of the car compared to Merdedes who generates most down-force at the rear of the floor.

Would you say that this is correct or am I spewing complete nonsense?

In ideal conditions, the situation is very likely the opposite, as Mercedes has a clear "peak" on the floor underside and RB has a flat area and almost "inverted" geometry





However, floor deflection on Mercedes almost definitely causes the rear part of the floor to generate more load then expected, inducing further deflection and moving the downforce distribution slightly to the rear.

[SirBastianVettel]

Fascinating, thank you for this explanation! I love the technical side of Formula 1, but this just shows how difficult it can be for a layman to understand even the basics of aerodynamics .

[matteosc]

Interesting post, I think it belongs more here.

yes more floor exposed to the camera. so from that angle you see more floor.
Sidepod obscuring view does not mean no floor... that is just a lazy assumption.
If I had to sit under an umbrella with only my legs exposed to an aerial photo, would you then proceed to assume have no torso?
Under the side pod of RB there is still floor, all nicely exposed to managed airflow...

But, if it will make you happy I can pretend that MB has the biggest shiniest floor....

You need to look at other angle, like the one posted previously here: viewtopic.php?p=1041602#p1041602
By the way, this was the post I referred to previously in the other thread.

[matteosc]

If you look at the picture above, you actually see that the RedBull has more floor exposed then the Mercedes. With the extreme side pods of the W13, they take up some floor at the front, where RedBull has all of it's "bulge" above the floor.
It looks a bit like the opposite what we've seen in the past years, where Mercedes managed the air around the side pods, raising everything up as high as possible or get stuff out of the way to have a clear path from the neutral section at the front wing to the diffuser, around the side pods where RedBull had a much more "over the side pods, down towards the diffuser" approach.

Mercedes has marginally less exposed floor at the front, because of the sidepodes choice they made, but way more exposed floor at the back. Please refer to this previous post for a clear picture: viewtopic.php?p=1041602#p1041602

[JordanMugen]

Funny how under the last set of regulations this would be the last thing a team would do.

Wide and outwashing sidepods seem like the only way to go...

A team that designed their car as an "undercut car" just killed said undercut to create outwash...
That can be a huge sign.

Any truth to these murmurs?

Have the likes of McLaren, Williams and Mercedes missed the boat, or are these murmurs unfounded and there is more than one good solution to upper bodywork?

[Ashwinv16]

RB18 vs AMR22B