But that is not what my post was about. My premise is that the rear instability is causing Hamilton's drop in performance and its not that the cars are different, it is that they are exactly the same but Lewis's natural driving balance preference (stable rear) is not present.
I don’t quite agree, in 2020, in general, Ferrari had a good car and a good rear end, only the engine sucked due to FIA sanctions, I said SF71H 2018, it was very fast, but sometimes the rear of the car was not stable, which is why Vettel lost the championship, he made spins many times in the race and lost pointsDee wrote: ↑09 Apr 2025, 00:51But that is not what my post was about. My premise is that the rear instability is causing Hamilton's drop in performance and its not that the cars are different, it is that they are exactly the same but Lewis's natural driving balance preference (stable rear) is not present.
As for your premise, as long as Leclerc has a fast car and a strong front he doesn't mind having an unstable rear. He can perform with those characteristics, similar to 2019/2020 vs Vettel.
No, the lack of answer is because we literally don't know. It could just be that Charles found a setup he likes while Lewis hasn't yet.
Hamilton's setup is based on a stable rear end, it has been a fundamental basis in setup in all of his successful cars so far.. that is why he hasn't found a setup that works for him yet, it fits very well with your theory also.SoulPancake13 wrote: ↑09 Apr 2025, 02:15No, the lack of answer is because we literally don't know. It could just be that Charles found a setup he likes while Lewis hasn't yet.
I was surprised that the W16 was as stable and very predictacble as it is now, and Mercedes seems a lot more confident in its floor performance more than I seen in a long while. Really, the rear suspension from the W15 last year when it worked as it should, it had a lot of potential. James Allison certainly did his homework.Dee wrote: ↑09 Apr 2025, 03:03And just to add on;
What is the common link between Mercedes and Ferrari in regards to car design in the ground effect era?... might it be Loic Serra...who was promoted to performance director of Mercedes in 2019, no doubt involved in designing the ground effect car of 2022 and is now Technical Director of Chassis in Ferrari 2025 after switching teams last year.
Ferrari going from https://scuderiafans.com/ferrari-sf24-s ... p1-review/ to Mercedes - esque in it's unstable rear and bad tyre wear with Loic focusing on this part amongst other areas https://www.f1oversteer.com/news/ferrar ... 25-f1-car/
And we see a turnaround in Mercedes with Serra gone, now it's balanced and good on tyre wear...
Maybe it's all just a bad coincidence...
If this is legit, I figured it was not floor, because Lewis did not say the floor. I don't recall who quoted Lewis, but wrongly put in quotation that he said the floor is not working. He did not say that at all. He did not leave any hints about what part was the issue.atanatizante wrote: ↑08 Apr 2025, 16:51I don't know how reliable this rumor is, but the foulty item HAM talked about in the press conference after the Suzuka race seems to be the IBS inertial damping system:
" ... Another key point, in addition to understeer, SF25 has been struggling with a structural defect in the rear suspension since the beginning of the season, specifically in the inertial damping system known as IBS. This component is vital for controlling the chassis' vertical movements, which wasn't working as it should. The result is a bouncing car punishing the rear tires during acceleration and compromising traction in slow and medium speed corners, a problem affecting not only race pace but also the car's consistency lap after lap. And although from the outside it may seem that both drivers share the same car and therefore should perform equally, the technical reality is different. LEC has found a more stable setup, one that better suits his driving style. Meanwhile, Hamilton, who requires a more reactive front end and more aggressive corner entry, can't fully exploit his driver skills if the car doesn't respond as expected, hence the huge gap between the two in qualifying and the race despite having the same equipment ... "
The key word is defect and something that was not working. This does not suggest setup differences. It suggests that something is wrong with a part on his car in particular, that was recently discovered.Dee wrote: ↑09 Apr 2025, 00:15Could it just be that Hamilton is not comfortable with the rear?
https://racer.com/2025/04/07/hamilton-h ... o-leclerc/
"Through the first three races, there’s been a bit of a deficit between both sides of the garage on an element of the car, so on my side, something [is] underperforming. So, it’s good to know, with what I had, that’s the best results.”
https://as.com/motor/formula_1/hamilton ... hatgpt.com
"Something is not working on my side of the garage. The rear end is quite different to Charles's"
This was what Charles said after Japan;
“I learned a lot from the car, that's the positive. Friday was a good day after working on several ideas we'd had for a few weeks, and they worked out. I'm very happy with that.”
As for driving style, Charles said they are similar in how they attack the entries;
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... hatgpt.com
"We both like to push quite a lot, especially the entries, and on that we are quite similar"
But what about rear stability?
Charles likes a sharp front and can deal with a shaky rear.
As far as I know about Hamilton, he likes a responsive front and a stable rear.
"Lewis Hamilton has generally been known to prefer a car with a stable rear. Over the years, he has often mentioned how important rear-end stability is for his driving style, as it helps him feel more confident and maintain better control, especially during high-speed corners and braking zones. This preference allows him to push the car to its limits while maintaining consistency and precision in his driving.
Hamilton's driving style is typically focused on car balance, and a stable rear end gives him the confidence to attack corners aggressively, while also maintaining tire management and braking performance. This aspect of his setup preference has been consistent throughout his career, whether with McLaren, Mercedes, or now Ferrari, and has often been a factor he discusses when he experiences challenges with car performance"
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/lewi ... /10710468/
So what I am getting at is;
Maybe there is no difference between the cars, maybe it's just that Hamilton is not comfortable with the rear and the new update might solve this by making it more stable..
Maybe he believe's that the cars are different because of the way Charles is able to handle the instability (able to hide it with his driving) ...
The Ferrari is not the Mercedes, Hamilton is having to drive it in a different way ...
https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-ham ... hatgpt.com
"Honestly, the car felt so much different to what I've ever experienced...It just requires a different way of driving it, so adjusting my driving style bit by bit."
Maybe he is adjusting his style to an unstable rear and at the moment, that is all there is too it ...
Again, Serra has not touched the SF25 until now. The Bahrain update is the first thing he has given his opinion on. Besides, he has been on gardening with Mercedes since the summer of 2023... this is also the same Loic Serra who was a key part of Merc dominance from 2014 until 2020 according to Mercedes themselves.Dee wrote: ↑09 Apr 2025, 03:03And just to add on;
What is the common link between Mercedes and Ferrari in regards to car design in the ground effect era?... might it be Loic Serra...who was promoted to performance director of Mercedes in 2019, no doubt involved in designing the ground effect car of 2022 and is now Technical Director of Chassis in Ferrari 2025 after switching teams last year.
Ferrari going from https://scuderiafans.com/ferrari-sf24-s ... p1-review/ to Mercedes - esque in it's unstable rear and bad tyre wear with Loic focusing on this part amongst other areas https://www.f1oversteer.com/news/ferrar ... 25-f1-car/
And we see a turnaround in Mercedes with Serra gone, now it's balanced and good on tyre wear...
Maybe it's all just a bad coincidence...
ringo wrote: ↑09 Apr 2025, 05:11If this is legit, I figured it was not floor, because Lewis did not say the floor. I don't recall who quoted Lewis, but wrongly put in quotation that he said the floor is not working. He did not say that at all. He did not leave any hints about what part was the issue.
whats the source of this? i dont really trust italian media outside of a few sources. Autoracer is still saying today that Ferrari are bringing upgrades and that theyre to balance the car and hopefully run it lower (theyre currently running it 3mm higher than they would like and are losing 3-4 tenths to Mclaren because of that alone. No mention of them not running it in the race itself from Autoracer eitheratanatizante wrote: ↑09 Apr 2025, 15:59Some detailed rumors from the Italian media about the new floor, which seem they will just back-to-back test it with the old floor only in FP1, but will not run in the race due to lack of spares and the need for a better understanding of the car, the latter reason backed by Serra and Fred:
"During winter testing, Ferrari had already been working on several floor configurations aimed at improving downforce generation efficiency under the ground effect regime, the cornerstone of the current technical regulations. The concept now being implemented at the Bahrain Grand Prix is a refined version of one of those experimental designs, and its main objective is to allow the car to operate lower without incurring the excessive plank that has plagued the team so far. The new floor incorporates three key areas of intervention:
First, the Venturi channels, critical structures under the car that channel air flow, have been modified to make them taller and more efficient. This seeks to generate additional vortices that not only increase downforce but also stabilize the air flow and reduce the car's vertical oscillations.
Second, the outer edges of the floor have been completely redesigned. They now feature a narrower, more controlled profile, reducing lateral turbulence and improving aerodynamic ceiling, a vital element for maximizing downforce under the car without compromising stability in fast corners.
The third major change is the relocation of the car's center of pressure, now slightly forward compared to its previous position. This change has direct implications for cornering balance, the SF25 had been accused of chronic understeer issues, especially on tracks with medium and high-speed corners. This realignment should improve the car's rotational ability at the apex of the corner, offering a more precise feel to the driver, particularly during aggressive entry and weight transfer phases. Interestingly, this technical update not only seeks to improve raw performance but also to expand the car's operating window.
The choice of Bahrain as the venue for this technical debut is also no coincidence. The Sakir Circuit features a demanding combination of heavy braking, high lateral load corners, and long straights. It's an ideal environment to decisively measure the impact of the new floor as any improvement in stability, traction, or aerodynamic efficiency will be immediately visible on the time sheets. Furthermore, Ferrari's recent experience at this circuit, combined with the data accumulated during preseason, albeit incomplete, gives them a solid reference against which to compare the car's performance before and after this update."
