Mercedes GP W02

[Leon]

there's no evil without good

[The FOZ]

Looks like the toilet needs flushed on this thread again...I don't see what any of this drivel has to do with the characteristics of the W02.

I'm curious about the DRS issue - on one hand, we've heard the wing doesn't return properly because it depends on the airflow reattaching to the element. Or is there a manufacturing flaw? Would the element be completely airflow dependent, or is there a mechanical return as well, and that's what wasn't manufactured correctly.

[ringo]

The first element is too big i think.
the flow is possibly reattaching at the end plates, but stays detached in the middle.

The monkey seat on the beam wing, as it is called, is probably a desperate attempt to send some up-wash up the middle of the wing to make reattachment easier.

The good thing about this problem is that it only requires a new iteration of rear wing. Maybe a less aggressive one, or one with smaller middle chord. How long it takes them to pin point the problem?

If the car is overheating it's either a seriously inefficient cooling system or the the exhaust pathways are very poor.

Those 2 radiators together are probably 1.5 times the size of the typical f1 radiator. It's unlikely they are the problem. What could be the problem though is the air flow into them; how the air reaches them through that split side-pod, especially the upper radiator.
Then there's the problem of evacuating the air though the cramped sidepods.

This car should have been much longer to make things easier. I'm tired of saying this, but copying the redbull is the easiest and safest route to make a competitive car. This short wheel base, double radiator thing is unique, but then it was in vain. The car is a distinctive dog, when a copy cat could have been much safer and effective.

Wish them well in getting it back up the front. It can be done, as the car can pretty much still copy the leaders without much obstacles.

[Morteza]

Hi, from what I've been told by my friend who works at Brackley, the car has big cooling problems, the kers is very very unreliable and the rear wing has somehow been manufactured wrong (although he wouldnt really elaborate too much on that). they do expect some decent, competitive perfomance from the car once they have these issues sorted.

He is currently working flat out in the factory and they have been told to do whatever is needed, regardless of cost!

If true, doing everything that is needed regardless of cost is not a good piece of news and shows they have messed it up again with the design. But the BIG question is this : Can they fix their problems with this car? Brackley guys don't have the best reputation for developments you know.

BTW, how can this team get everything wrong again this year? It is the BAR/Honda DNA left in this factory? Am I missing a big point here?

[AlfredNeubauer]

The only way Mercedes can improve the W02 in the fastest way possible is to find a way to skirt the F1 Testing Ban.

I have always thought that if a team can build a hidden track, they can test unsupervised. Formula One is not a sport. It is war.

This is not an empty suggestion. Michael Schumacher and Ross Brawn have only been known to operate successfully during periods of unlimited testing. So this is the fastest way to develop the car.

Rules? What rules? Have you seen the "Flexing Bulls"?

Winning is all that matters.

[McPedro]

The only way Mercedes can improve the W02 in the fastest way possible is to find a way to skirt the F1 Testing Ban.

I have always thought that if a team can build a hidden track, they can test unsupervised. Formula One is not a sport. It is war.

This is not an empty suggestion. Michael Schumacher and Ross Brawn have only been known to operate successfully during periods of unlimited testing. So this is the fastest way to develop the car.

Rules? What rules? Have you seen the "Flexing Bulls"?

Winning is all that matters.

Have you got a spare ECU they could borrow

[spacer]

The only way Mercedes can improve the W02 in the fastest way possible is to find a way to skirt the F1 Testing Ban.

I have always thought that if a team can build a hidden track, they can test unsupervised. Formula One is not a sport. It is war.

This is not an empty suggestion. Michael Schumacher and Ross Brawn have only been known to operate successfully during periods of unlimited testing. So this is the fastest way to develop the car.

Rules? What rules? Have you seen the "Flexing Bulls"?

Winning is all that matters.

Have you got a spare ECU they could borrow

That's no problem at all, many teams have magnetti ECU's they can plug into their current harness; this is afaik required to run the cars at all of those demo-runs.

[marcush.]

their KERS woes clearly show just where the core competence of 2009 s system lay -not in the hands of Mercedes ,which comes as a surprise.

The rear wing manufacturing issue is just again showing that they lack attention to detail.They sure know how a car is build to make the distance but it seems their thermal management is a weakness -and Mercedes should know as the BGP001 was VERY marginal on cooling and Haug was always very concerned about them accepting unbelievable temperatures ....3years on and they are still marginal...

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Marcush, running KERS and having the experience of it is more important than having a wonderful unit you dont know how to use.
Look at how Red Bull are struggling with KERS. And Mercedes are a smaller operation that have had zero experience of running it as a combined team.

[kalinka]

Marcush, running KERS and having the experience of it is more important than having a wonderful unit you dont know how to use.

Isn't their KERS the exact same as McLaren's ? If it's so then their problem really has to be cooling+experience related. I'd say cooling is more probable, because I think Mercedes can give them all the data they gathered with McLaren in 2009...but maybe it's not the same, beacuse it's not first-hand exp...

EDIT : The problem with DRS, and the fact that they promised the soulution only for Turkish GP is really surprises me. It has to be one of the most simplier systems on a F1 car. Am I missing something ?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

The problem is actual running.

The system is good, that is generally accepted. But Mercedes have got a cooling concept all of their own, and while the system may be identical to Mclarens, its installation will be totally different.

The dual radiator concept for example, is not only unique for F1 this year(I think), it is also extremely bulky for a shortwheelbase configurationed car.

Also, how is the W02 going to find more rake? A poster mentioned ealier that the W02 runs fairly high rake but I can see it. And being shorter, it raises(excuse the pun) a few problems when giving it more rake.
You can see that Merc front wing is in no danger of scraping the ground, compared to that of an RB7 or of late an MP-4/26

[f1gang]

to make more rake...MERCEDES must have 3 element wing!! to working it into the ground

[marcush.]

geometrically the short wheelbase is not doing anything negative,to get the same inclination they would even have to run less rear rideheight compared to the long wb cars ..but thats just a few tenths so why bother when we are talking several centimeters of more rear ride height for the RedBull..

Where starts a system and where does it end? the cooling package for the KERS is part of KERS ,if it´s marginal you are running into trouble...so you are drawing up the cutline at the wrong place possibly.
Looking up the Merc and the Mac I don´t think the KERS units share that much apart from the base unit but hopefully we will get a bit of gold to see as we had already in 2009.

As said before cranking in some more dynamic rake is all possible but you are looking for downforce not rake...so maybe it´s not a viable solution to all teams.

[David1976]

The only way Mercedes can improve the W02 in the fastest way possible is to find a way to skirt the F1 Testing Ban.

Winning is all that matters.

This is why McLaren have invested so much time in their simulator and how it models aero and tyre performance.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

And why I feel 2011 is a write off.

The Benz simulators will not be fully operational until the end of the year, and Bob Bell will have to weed out the bad from the good. Because I feel there is good in this team.
Turn the W02 into a breathing laboratory, use every race and practice as a real world test sessions. Forget about points, and concentrate on performance.