USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

[segedunum]

Whatever opinion we will be hearing out of USF1 about the Ken's and Peter's capabilities and qualities the facts speak a clear language.

Christ. Facts come from articles such as this and hard information, not conjecture and you wishing things to have happened in a certain way.

[*]they did not have a nucleus organisation like Wirth or Dallara to start with

Bad planning. Starting from scratch was always going to be insanely difficult, even with good planning and finance.

[*]they were dedicated to do it outside of the UK and Europe which makes everything harder

Bad planning. Penske ended up quitting F1 because the US/Europe split was too difficult to maintain. Even Toyota had difficulty, being based in Germany.

[*]the initial time frame was shortened by the FiA/FOTA war

Virgin, Campos and Lotus had timeframes as tight or even tighter, as well as financial trouble. They all have cars.

[*]they were targeted with rumors about financial instability

This article says otherwise, from an employee no less. Who is going to sponsor a team that isn't ready with such bad planning? The financial instability rumours proved to be correct.

[*]they were hit by the credit crunch and the collaps of the sponsor market at a crucial time

Virgin and Lotus have sponsors and Campos might well have some financial backing to save them. Other teams have done it. USF1 was also sitting on a potential sponsor mountain in the US, which other teams don't readily have access to.

[*]they could not execute plans due to lack of funding (potentially created by the rumors)

Lack of funding existed because of a lack of progress and planning. We have an article that backs that up.

With this situation it will be difficult to put the blame on someone.

You put the blame on those at the top. That's always the case.

What you've given there are a catalogue of excuses which you think justifies failure.

Of course there will always be know-it-alls telling us otherwise.

We now have an article that confirms what many of us have been saying all along, and you still can't see facts in the face. You're bare faced if nothing else, I'll give you that. You're not the Iraqi Minister for Information are you?

[Roger the knife]

I don't have specific info about USF1. However, regarding Windsor's team manager experience at Williams in the late 80's...

That was when Patrick Head was in full force as a daily hands-on engineering chief. Windsor may have managed some aspects of the team but he clearly did not have final responsibility for ensuring that new cars came to exist. That was Patrick Head's job.

It appears USF1's Ken Andersen is no Patrick Head, and it also appears Windsor was, at a minimum, a bit naive about the difference between the two, and he didn't understand what someone like Head brought to the table in the first place.

This makes me respect Head even more. He was so good at organizing Williams that people didn't understand he was doing much.

Additional lesson-- Running a small business is really hard. Don't do it with a partner unless you have the highest familiarity and respect for the partner. It sounds like it's been a long time since the USF1 partners were on the same page. The partners would have to become more organized before they could start blaming each other for what went wrong.

More than anything else this situation is just frustrating and sad. When the lights go out in Bahrain I'll spare a thought for the employees at USF1 who worked hard to try and make it happen.

The best PW story I remember was while working in the Kidlington area in about 1986, when a certain F1 "team manager" was dumped out of a Transit van on the Oxford ring-road, with evidence of a bit of a beating.... ha ha ha, that's how they got things sorted in the old days

[Richard]

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Classic forum deadlock.

I don't think anyone can disagree with WhiteBlue's list of problems for USF1, yet segeunum and Pup deconstruct it point by point. But when you read their comments, all three are in agreement on those points.

As for who to blame, well it is never as easy as a single person? We don't know who made what decision within the team, so we can't point the finger at an individual other than say it was Chad/Ken/Peter, agreed?

As for external events (recession and FIA/FOTA), they might have made tough circumstances tougher. That might have hastened the end, but it would appear that this team was always going to end up in this scenario thanks to Chad/Ken/Peter. Yes?

[Giblet]

Deconsturcting posts point by point does not make a post about the topic at hand, it makes it about the other posters post.

WB usually posts what is on his mind, and he us able to respond to posts as a whole, whether you agree with him or not, he is capable of looking at a whole post, and responding in kind.

The dissection of posts line by line is called simply arguing. This is why in a structured debate, the speaker is allowed to finish his whole point, and the opposition responds in kind.

Otherwise, it't just the child-like equivalent of being incapable of processing the viewpoint as a whole, and responding in kind.

Like my father used to say, "stop interrupting, let me finish".

These insane rants make the forum difficult to read, and about as abrasive as a cheese grater on my knuckles. If anyone behaved like that in real life, interrupting every sentence, they would have their gobs smacked to the back of their heads.

[Pup]

If WB presents his argument by breaking it down into individual points, then he should expect any rebuttal to respond to them similarly. There's nothing wrong with that; and if it looks like he's getting beat up on this, it might just be because his arguments are feeble.

Besides, no one is interrupting anyone. I'm not sure how one would even go about doing that.

And btw - to paraphrase a very wise man, deconstructing the structure of posts does not make a post about the topic at hand, it makes it about the other poster's post.

Now please, stop interrupting us and let us finish.

[marcush.]

My position is the following:

USF1 has officially a structure of 3 heads Anderson ,Windsor and Hurley.

If ,and I have now no doubt abot it ,Anderson is not the right guy to manage a team of the required size and put processes in place and work from a proper planning tool wich is not only in his head, then it is commited suicide from the other two and the group leaders within the technical team as well to wait and wait for a wonder to happen.
Both Hurley and Windsor got a wink by the employees ,but honestly they should have looked and asked questions from day one ,not when it became obvious to the world that something did not fit .

So pick up the mirror and blame the guy you see.If they are pros they knew early on what was going on and what was wrong.

[ESPImperium]

Personally, i hope to see what would have been the finished car sometime. But this thread and the USF1 team are almost like flogging a dead donkey. Not fun, not amusing and a little old.

I think i can hangle us getting to Bahrain with 9 established teams, 2 teams just making it from the intensive care unit, and one team just off life support. Then that means that the FIA can open up the tender process up again for the 13th team on the grid as early as posible, but with the previso of a buisness model simmilar to Virgin racing, whitch could posibly mean that Lola/Prodrive could be a shoe-in for that posistion, as long as the team that gets that spot uses Renault power, meaning that the engine supplyer to team ratio looks a little more even, like this;

Mercedes FO108X = 3 Teams [Mercedes GP/McLaren/Force India]
Ferarri 056 = 3 Teams [Ferarri/Toro Rosso/BMW Sauber]
Cosworth = 4 Teams [Williams/Virgin/Lotus/Campos-Dallara]
Renault = 3 teams [Renault/Red Bull/NEW TEAM]

But the FIA needs to try and get at least 2 more engine supplyers to the grid, hence why i think they should have conjolled Toyota to stay in F1 and had them supply USF1 with engines and a driver for the season. Personally i think we need Toyota and a new marque in the sport, posibly VW in the way of Audi. Engine supplyers can and should only be allowed to supply a maximum of 2 teams, posibly meaning that we should only really have 12 teams on the grid anyways.

But thats another story and argument. This thread is full of off tangents, and ill not start another one.

[WhiteBlue]

Pup, you were putting a lot of effort into commenting my list of obstacles for USF1. When I wrote that list I already knew that someone would make all those points. So why did I nevertheless write up the list?

I thought that their vision had a great deal of appeal not only to Americans but also to Europeans like me. After some initial scepticism I was sold on that idea when they came out with the new kind of coverage in December last year.

Personally I do not approve the UK and EU centricity of the F1 world championship. Getting F1 firmly on the ground in the US by having a dedicated American team would have been a paradigm shift which could have benefitted other countries and continents as well.

It is a great shame that the development of the racing calendar, the support of new teams and drivers from new countries in F1 is completely left to private initiative and the machinations of the commercial rights owner and the established teams. The FiA should have made more of an effort to support the creation of teams outside the UK and the EU by substantial help in financial and organizational matters. They have the national sporting organizations to do that. But they have failed to support them by central finance and specialists who can work as business angles for entrepreneurs interested in F1 in the world outside of Europe.

Bottom line: It is still way too difficult to set up a new team against the existing forces in F1. More power needs to be allocated at the FiA to support a more global development of F1 with more teams.

[Pup]

Well, to be honest, I don't know what your point is anymore as it seems to change with every post. I know we've abandoned the "Everything is A-OK" angle, and also the "Campos deal makes no sense" angle, but have we given up on the "It's a conspiracy by Bernie" angle as well? Are we no longer on the "It's all Hurley's fault" angle"? What about the "They were at so much more of a disadvantage" angle? If so, I'm sorry that I'm a bit behind.

But I do think its a shame that you're giving up on "We'll never know who's to blame" after just the one post. I think you might have had something there.

Regardless, so now it's going to be FOTA's fault? OK, go ahead, I've got my popcorn.

[WhiteBlue]

As the story unfolds we got more information. The "It's all Ken and Peters fault" theory was never very plausible to me.

[Pup]

As the story unfolds we got more information. The "It's all Ken and Peters fault" theory was never very plausible to me.

Yet it withstands the test of time. Not as exciting a theory compared to yours - but you know me, I like the classics.

"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence." - Napoleon Bonaparte

[Ciro Pabón]

It's your fault, Pup. Anderson said so. Windsor says so. Look what I found at USF1 site:

"Interruptions at USF1 have a reason"
February 29, 2010, Charlotte
By The Horse That Brays, special correspondant

New reasons for USF1 team current predicament have come into the light. A recent press conference in Charlotte clarified some issues going around the team.

"It was that damn german shepherd", said Mr. Anderson, trying to conceal a tear. "He kept eating all the carbon fiber in the store. We thought we could manage that, but then he ate a whole set of plans. Besides, he was too smart for the trainer we brought in, trying to control the little pest", he lamented in front of the press corps.

"Then we contracted that german engineer: yes, the one who has been expelled from so many forums. He kept helping us with the cooling systems, but he changed them 37 times!" added Peter Windsor. "People always complained about the smell of bavarian beer permeating the shop, but things got worse when he insisted on blue over white for the car, then changed to white over blue, then, again, blue over white! The people at the paint shop quit in anger and all has been going downhill since."

Hurley commented dryly: "Our only hope is that guy from Colombia. We have no idea if is the salsa dancing lessons with the girls at the HR department or the old rum he brings in every Friday, but the team now has a different attitude. Apparently, the only bad idea he has had is the one about changing the name of the team to US Rumba, but, hey, he never makes mistakes: the guys at the team simply don't understand him".

So, the team is confident they will have a car ready in time for Abu Dhabi GP, around November 12. However, if they don't they will throw a monster party for the sponsors: the end result will be the same.

[Giblet]

I wouldn't want to be the one cleaning up after that dog.

[Pup]

I'm like a mobile autoclave. There's a market for these nuggets - I just know it!

[gibells]

from AutoSport:

By Jonathan Noble and Dieter Rencken Wednesday, February 24th 2010, 16:34 GMT

Team US F1 is the subject of an FIA inspection on Wednesday about its state of readiness for the new season, AUTOSPORT has learned, amid fresh doubts about the American outfit's hopes of competing in 2010.

Less than 24 hours after a senior staff member at the Charlotte-based operation revealed the troubles the team is in, high level sources have told AUTOSPORT that the FIA is now taking a detailed look at the team.

AUTOSPORT understands that FIA technical delegate Charlie Whiting is visiting US F1's headquarters to get an update on its progress for 2010 - and just how ready it is to compete this year.

The visit, which has not been officially confirmed by either US F1 or the FIA, comes in the wake of speculation that team backer Chad Hurley is trying to complete a deal with either Campos Meta or Stefan GP to merge operations and keep US F1's ambitions on track.

On Tuesday, Hurley was singled out as the man one senior staff member at US F1 believes is key to brokering a deal to help it survive.

"We feel Hurley and Parris Mullins [adviser to Hurley] have our best interest [at heart] and also feel Hurley has no intention of abandoning us even though the media has said he's gone with Campos," the staff member told AUTOSPORT.

"With all this talk about where US F1 is at, it's been missed that there are 60+ people who have had to suffer through this for the last two months. All of us left jobs and many of us travelled cross-country for this opportunity.

"In a meeting between the employees, Windsor and Anderson, Windsor put the question up to the employees: 'Who here doesn't think we'll make Bahrain?' I think he might have meant it somewhat rhetorically, but he was answered nonetheless, and 100 per cent of the staff raised their hands. He was visibly shocked.

"But having said that, throughout the turmoil, the team has really come together and we're all committed to the project; precious few have left in spite of the uncertainty of whether we'll be paid this Friday. I've never seen such dedication."

The FIA declined to confirm the inspection is taking place.

When contacted by AUTOSPORT an FIA spokesman said: "We have no comment to make, at this stage."