Mclaren Honda 2015

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bhall II
bhall II
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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trinidefender wrote:2. Temperature from tyre flexing is the middle ground where the tyre sidewall and treat gets heated up directly which then heats up the airmass inside and the rim. This will still hold temperature for a while but as less mass is heated up I.e. Predominantly the sidewall and tread then it loses this heat quicker.

[...]

As they consistently are slower on the straights there is less energy built up in the whole carcass of the tyre. This has multiple effects, largely initial braking performance before the tyre surface can come up to temperature under sustained braking from a high speed zone.

They have been complaining all year of not enough heat in the tyres. It is my belief that the extra straight line speed may help quite a fair bit when it comes to tyre temp and ultimately grip.
Since rolling resistance is negligible-ish here, straights tend to have more of a cooling effect on tires, because the high speed subjects them to a whole lot of wind. You can see it in the thermal imagery below.

The tread rapidly loses heat in normal conditions as the tires are unloaded on corner-exit and then cooled by the breeze.

Image

Conversely, temperature is maintained in the absence of such a breeze after the car slows down and comes to a stop.

Image

Same car, same corner, different speeds, different heat dissipation. (That's a good thing, though, because the alternative is a constant thrashing of the tires and 4,000,000,002 pit stops every race.)

So, if it's difficult for the drivers to work heat into MP4-30's tires, my guess is that setup and/or a lack of downforce is the cause. Otherwise, I completely agree with your comments about how the chassis is most likely compromised due to lack of power.

Ever since the team adopted tea-tray slots, I've had a sneaking suspicion the car might have a problem with diffuser stall.

Image

NL_Fer
NL_Fer
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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Abarth wrote:
NL_Fer wrote:I keep repeating, the chassis is good, because the pu is compromised. The small pu, allowed the size zero cokebottle rear, which increases air blow right into the rear wing. So yes cornering will be pretty good, butt maybe is prevents Honda of building a competative pu.
That size zero story is way overerstimated. Honda won't need 2 inches more on each engine side to get a more performant ERS.
Don't think about just a bigger turbine, maybe the need bulkier exhaust manifolds for more harvesting. But Mostly, i think it's a heat issue. The need more airflow around the pu for cooling. The more energy is harvested, the more heat is building up around the turbine/mgu-h area. Another issue is the turbo's rpm, we don't know if it runs a the designed rpm (of 125000) or that they had to settle for a lower less the ideal rpm. Maybe the turbo still needs more cooling airflow to prevent a internal meltdown.

And about the flatter rear wing, the more air flow, from the tighter back chassis, the less wing is needed to reach the same downforce level.

max_speed
max_speed
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Joined: 29 Oct 2012, 04:33

Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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http://gptoday.com/full_story/view/5428 ... _expected/

bodes well for next race lets see if Mclaren can be bit closer to top 10 and can clear Q3 comfortably.

bhall II
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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GoranF1
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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Honda may postpone upgraded PU until after Austin.
http://en.f1i.com/news/29268-honda-migh ... pdate.html
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

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F1NAC
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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Magnussen will get boot after this season. Mclaren wont renew his contract. Vandoorne will replace him

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bauc
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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F1NAC wrote:Magnussen will get boot after this season. Mclaren wont renew his contract. Vandoorne will replace him
I suspected this even towards the end of last season, when Ron said that he needs support from his home country (sponsors) in order to remain in F1. Sadly that is the sport we have today :cry:
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GoranF1
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

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ME4ME
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Joined: 19 Dec 2014, 16:37

Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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OK let's look at Benson's trend line:

They went from 3,35% off pace at China to about 2,6% off pace in Russia (gain is 0,75%)
The Chinese GP was at 29th of March 2015, and the Russian GP was at the 11th October 2015. That's 197 days.

So the rate of improvement is 263 days per percent compared to the quickest car.
Let's say that continues through the winter at the same rate, and let's say it continues in a linear fashion (which probably isn't the case). That would mean they catch up to Mercedes in 2,6*263=683 days. That's the 3rd of September 2017, that's almost 2 years! That will mean no title-charge in either 2016 nor 2017, now Benson, you try to explain that to Alonso, or Ron Dennis for that matter.

Luckily all these assumptions, statistics etc aren't relevant to the real word, and more substantial gains can be made over the winter, rather than go by a predicted trend line :)

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Postmoe
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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ME4ME wrote: Luckily all these assumptions, statistics etc aren't relevant to the real word, and more substantial gains can be made over the winter, rather than go by a predicted trend line :)
Statistics are based on the real world; just saying.

I really doubt Benson is implying Mclaren Honda is progressing at X rate. He is demonstrating a progression trend, as statistically, the sample he is using wouldn't work for that at all.

And of course, as you said, there is only linear catch-up when development is hampered by some factor, wich in this case relates to regulations, not to the current state of Honda's PU lifecyle ;)

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diffuser
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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GoranF1 wrote:Honda may postpone upgraded PU until after Austin.
http://en.f1i.com/news/29268-honda-migh ... pdate.html
That's just another one of those news articles in F1 that don't really say anything. I could have told you that if they have problems with it they're not gonna run it!!!

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ME4ME
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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On a totally different subject: Mclaren really sucks when it comes to take care of their drivers and contracts etc.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/magnu ... via-email/

How hard can it be for Ron to pick up the phone and tell Kevin himself.. :(

foxivan
foxivan
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Joined: 08 Jul 2011, 15:51

Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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just feel sad for Kevin, hope he can find a seat next year.

GoranF1
GoranF1
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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ME4ME wrote:OK let's look at Benson's trend line:

They went from 3,35% off pace at China to about 2,6% off pace in Russia (gain is 0,75%)
The Chinese GP was at 29th of March 2015, and the Russian GP was at the 11th October 2015. That's 197 days.

So the rate of improvement is 263 days per percent compared to the quickest car.
Let's say that continues through the winter at the same rate, and let's say it continues in a linear fashion (which probably isn't the case). That would mean they catch up to Mercedes in 2,6*263=683 days. That's the 3rd of September 2017, that's almost 2 years! That will mean no title-charge in either 2016 nor 2017, now Benson, you try to explain that to Alonso, or Ron Dennis for that matter.

Luckily all these assumptions, statistics etc aren't relevant to the real word, and more substantial gains can be made over the winter, rather than go by a predicted trend line :)
but at the moment from 3 crucial structures on the PU(ICE,MGU-K,MGU-H) the last one is almost non functional,so that would be a dramatic improvement,and also in Austin we might see a big step from ICE....the rate of improvement will have some quite big steps in the future.
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

GoranF1
GoranF1
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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foxivan wrote:just feel sad for Kevin, hope he can find a seat next year.
he is not that good to be honest...
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."