USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

[xpensive]

That's my point Tim, why would you spend your money on four CNC's, all with doubtful use, but only one mini-autoclave?

This was clearly a scam of some sort, not clear which though.

[jddh1]

Anderson & Windsor promised funding was secured for 3yrs..

- $16m from drivers (per season)
- $10m from Locstein ($30m for 3yrs)
- plus whatever Hurley brought to the table..
- FOM annual dividends

its becoming increasingly obvious that funding was not the biggest issue at the team..
it is after sponsors signed on, that funding was pulled & became an issue. USF1 did not hold to their side of the deals.. how did that happen, and who's to blame..?

You might be able to run an F1 team for a year for $40-50m but I seriously doubt you could start one from scratch. The non recurring costs are the killers;
Autoclaves plus tooling
5 axis CNC machines
lathes, drills (in fact the whole machine shop)
clean rooms
plycutters
freezers
NDT equipment
CMM's and other metrology equipment
CAD stations
software licences
recruiting
data aquisition gear
tensile tesing machines
fatigue testing gear
engine dynomometers
transmission dynomometers
stores and logistics
transporters and other vehicles
office equipment etc

Purchase and commissioning all of thist would come in at well well over $100m and thats quite a conservative guess. I can totally belive that they ran out of money.

Tim

Indeed. All these expenses add up. I now feel like they had to start off as a GP2 team and then apply in about 2012-13 for an F1 entry.

And let's keep it down over here guys. With their demand to defer the entry till 2011 we'll have plenty to talk about next off-season. I feel like if this continues we might set a record for the longest topic on the site. (Ciro, can you confirm?)

[mx_tifoso]

I do believe that this thread has the most pages on the site, having surpassed the 'Caption Competition' thread which is currently at 146 pages.

As for whether they should have started off in GP2 or any other lesser category I don't think it would be all that helpful, a perfect example being Campos. They didn't even build their own car but also had financial/management problems.

[swolff]

People

Understand that USF1 was using a LOT of really great and superior outsourcing vendors for Carbon, CFD etc etc.
ergo did not need a lot of their own tooling.

I keep seeing this misunderstanding of their situation over n over.

[xpensive]

People

Understand that USF1 was using a LOT of really great and superior outsourcing vendors for Carbon, CFD etc etc.
ergo did not need a lot of their own tooling.

I keep seeing this misunderstanding of their situation over n over.

Those CNC's were not, what would you possibly need those for unless you planned on making 30 000 wheel-nuts or so?

[Pup]

You might be able to run an F1 team for a year for $40-50m but I seriously doubt you could start one from scratch. The non recurring costs are the killers;
Autoclaves plus tooling
5 axis CNC machines
lathes, drills (in fact the whole machine shop)
clean rooms
plycutters
freezers
NDT equipment
CMM's and other metrology equipment
CAD stations
software licences
recruiting
data aquisition gear
tensile tesing machines
fatigue testing gear
engine dynomometers
transmission dynomometers
stores and logistics
transporters and other vehicles
office equipment etc

Purchase and commissioning all of thist would come in at well well over $100m and thats quite a conservative guess. I can totally belive that they ran out of money.

Tim

If the equipment you listed cost $100m, I'll eat the internet. I doubt if there's $10m worth of equipment in their shop, probably more like $5m, and half of that was probably leased.

Lotus' budget is £55m for the year, including startup costs.

[Giblet]

I thought Lotus used a pre existing shop, and didn't need to build one.

[countersteer]

@swollf

People

Understand that USF1 was using a LOT of really great and superior outsourcing vendors for Carbon, CFD etc etc.
ergo did not need a lot of their own tooling.

I keep seeing this misunderstanding of their situation over n over.

don't waste your breath swollf. I was hoping to have these kinds of discussions too. Unfortunately, if USF1 had announced their tires were black, Xpensive would have jumped in to announce they were wrong, stupid, crooked, ignorant, etc. etc. as well as being asses.

sigh...

[Pup]

@swollf

People

Understand that USF1 was using a LOT of really great and superior outsourcing vendors for Carbon, CFD etc etc.
ergo did not need a lot of their own tooling.

I keep seeing this misunderstanding of their situation over n over.

don't waste your breath swollf. I was hoping to have these kinds of discussions too. Unfortunately, if USF1 had announced their tires were black, Xpensive would have jumped in to announce they were wrong, stupid, crooked, ignorant, etc. etc. as well as being asses.

sigh...

Problem is, he'd be right, since USF1 still doesn't have any tires.

[Giblet]

swolf, I defended USF1 for as long as was reasonable, and even beyond, but they have for the most part proved the naysayers right, unfortunately.

xpensive for his part, has been consistent as devil's advocate.

[xpensive]

The only funny part in this sad farce is how well PeeWee played some Americans, knowing they would blindly support anything called "US-something".

[Fil]

Anderson & Windsor promised funding was secured for 3yrs..

- $16m from drivers (per season)
- $10m from Locstein ($30m for 3yrs)
- plus whatever Hurley brought to the table..
- FOM annual dividends

its becoming increasingly obvious that funding was not the biggest issue at the team..
it is after sponsors signed on, that funding was pulled & became an issue. USF1 did not hold to their side of the deals.. how did that happen, and who's to blame..?

You might be able to run an F1 team for a year for $40-50m but I seriously doubt you could start one from scratch.
[..]
I can totally belive that they ran out of money.

Tim

If they did not have the funding in place for a start-up, they had no right in being awarded an entry,

And yes, they did run out of money.
But only after sponsors went running, seeing first-hand this entry was never going to make it. It took sponsors less than 8 weeks from signing to have cause to enact exit clauses. Hardly a good sign of team processes & management.

[Pup]

The only funny part in this sad farce is how well PeeWee played some Americans, knowing they would blindly support anything called "US-something".

The only support they got in the US was from Hurley. Their US suppliers apparently weren't even willing to offer them credit.

No, the people who were taken in by this pair are on a very short list: Hurley, Max, Lopez, Rossiter, and the country of Argentina.

[xpensive]

The only funny part in this sad farce is how well PeeWee played some Americans, knowing they would blindly support anything called "US-something".

The only support they got in the US was from Hurley. Their US suppliers apparently weren't even willing to offer them credit.

No, the people who were taken in by this pair are on a very short list: Hurley, Max, Lopez, Rossiter, and the country of Argentina.

True Pup, but I was referring to how well he played the American F1 supporters, by an endless stream of name droppings and embarrassing references to Dan Gurney, which worked pretty well on F1T as well as other forums, don't you agree?

@ Gib; It was not really my intention to play the Devil's advocate, neither am I anti-anything, xcept for anti-stupidity.

PeeWee's and AndyPandy's faked CV's was all it took to tell me this was a scam, you can't con a con-man, if you wish.

[xpensive]

This one's for you WB, i get that Lopez wants 830 kUSD back, but can you translate the rest?

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 30208.html