McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes (pre-launch speculation)

[PlatinumZealot]

This image

from the 150th thread shows the fornt upper side crash tubes detached form the sidepod and faired. Concept rumored for the 4-27 could be an evolution of this.

PS I agrre that it could be useful to create a more general thread on sidepod aero, maybe starting from what Gary Anderson (designer of that jordans whose picture have been frequently posted in this thread) has recently written on autosport

Tombazi's said those are not the crash structure. There are merely aero devices. I have verified this to myself with photos. The f-150th crash structures can be seen separate and apart from those bulges. there are little cones under the bulges, which may be aditional and conservative safety but there are not really necessary.

[PlatinumZealot]

then i have a feeling we're going to see some funky looking bodywork next year they could even possibly blow the diffusers again

Not with the exhausts pointing up over 10 degrees though. It would be shocking to see blown diffusers next year lol.

[shelly]

Tombazi's said those are not the crash structure. There are merely aero devices. I have verified this to myself with photos. The f-150th crash structures can be seen separate and apart from those bulges. there are little cones under the bulges, which may be aditional and conservative safety but there are not really necessary.

I have seen the picture with the cones (it has been posted a month ago or so in this hread), and I also expressed the doubt they could be effectively crash structures, because they are small.

IIRC the rule states that the crash cones have to be four, so a possible option is that they have chosen to have a big and a small one on the upper side instead of two of more or less the same size. Black lotus seem to have followed a similar path.

I think "aditional and conservative safety", as you call it, is not on the radar: they have those two cones because they are two crash structures as required by the ruling.
It could be interesting if you could pick up the Tombazis quote to put it into context.

To go on topic, I have not still found out size shape and location of this year's mclaren crash structures. I think that they have a differnt technology in the field of crash structures, and that is mainly what leads me to believe to the rumours of strange sidepod shapes from woking.

[raymondu999]

I am not referring to the mirrors. I think there is one of the four crash structures inside the sidepod lip.

Well I'll be damned...

Here you go

[Mr.S]

I still feel Mclaren have a lot to catch up. In Silverstone they suffered the most especially in high speed corners. The car was as quick as the DOG of a car W02 is.Probably they have got updates making it quicker.

Ferrari to me looked the quickest without EBD. Having said that Mclaren's in-season development & having 2 great drivers is a very handy open. Ferrari will throw everything including the kitchen sink.

For me it looks like it will be a 3 way battle RBR vs Mclaren vs Ferrari with Mercedes as the dark horse. I still give Newey the advantage but who knows,guess working is trash anyway.

[raymondu999]

I don't think the Ferrari was the quickest in terms of outright pace/qualifying, but it looked as if over a stint, they could beat the Bulls by virtue of keeping their tyres intact for longer.

[dren]

I still feel Mclaren have a lot to catch up. In Silverstone they suffered the most especially in high speed corners. The car was as quick as the DOG of a car W02 is.Probably they have got updates making it quicker.

Ferrari to me looked the quickest without EBD. Having said that Mclaren's in-season development & having 2 great drivers is a very handy open. Ferrari will throw everything including the kitchen sink.

For me it looks like it will be a 3 way battle RBR vs Mclaren vs Ferrari with Mercedes as the dark horse. I still give Newey the advantage but who knows,guess working is trash anyway.

Considering their car was designed around the EBD concept, naturally they would have lost a lot. I would not discount Mclaren or Ferrari next year and even Mercedes like you've stated. I hope we have at least 4 teams capable of wins. It'll make the season exciting.

[ell66]

I still feel Mclaren have a lot to catch up. In Silverstone they suffered the most especially in high speed corners. The car was as quick as the DOG of a car W02 is.Probably they have got updates making it quicker.

Ferrari to me looked the quickest without EBD. Having said that Mclaren's in-season development & having 2 great drivers is a very handy open. Ferrari will throw everything including the kitchen sink.

For me it looks like it will be a 3 way battle RBR vs Mclaren vs Ferrari with Mercedes as the dark horse. I still give Newey the advantage but who knows,guess working is trash anyway.

I agree with your last statement, except that i dont see merc doing much better, maybe they'll close the gap a bit but not enough to be in contention.
But looking back to silverstone, mclarens race pace was still pretty damn strong, and next year its a new car focused on new regs...i remember coming in 2010 everyone was saying mclraren wont cope with the loss of kers, or coming into 2011 that they wouldnt cope with out there massive diffuser, they'l be fine but i still think red bull will have an edge, unless they were gaining massive amounts from there exhaust and lets not forget along the nose height changes, thats a big change for RB.

[ringo]

Considering their car was designed around the EBD concept, naturally they would have lost a lot. I would not discount Mclaren or Ferrari next year and even Mercedes like you've stated. I hope we have at least 4 teams capable of wins. It'll make the season exciting.

I think newey is playing possum when he says the car was designed "around" the exhuast.
He is trying to make it sound as if the exhuast is the keystone to the whole design.
And this gives the impression of a weakness of the car if one element was taken away.

I think the car was not designed around the exhaust, but that all of it was refined with the exhuast exploiting the chassis, and the chassis exploiting the exhuast at the same time.
The rake for example is evidence of this "designing around" thing. It had to do with the aero balance.
Rear blowing sets the center of pressure to the back of any car. Having the rake shifts the balnce more forward.
Ferrari didn't have this level of integration and suffered understeer with the blown diffuser increasing rear grip with a lack of an aero feature to similarly increase grip in the front. They didn't "design around" the blowing. The chassis wasn't "symbiotic" with the exhaust.

So Don't think redbull will be at square 1 next year. In fact i would be worried.
The idea that these guys know how to "build around" stuff shouldn't be taken lightly.
If Newey can't build the car around the exhaust next year, he will simply build the car around something else.

"Build around" to me, is really saying every square inch of the car is intentional and symbiotic. I don't see it as an opportunity for mclaren to pounce.

Wouldn't put it past Newey to apply the same "intentional" design philosophy and still dominate; regardless if it's an exhaust pipe or a brake duck.

[raymondu999]

I think the car was not designed around the exhaust, but that all of it was refined with the exhuast exploiting the chassis, and the chassis exploiting the exhuast at the same time.

surely in the current "everyday conversation" that is what this means now? I think what you're saying is that the approach was ro get a good, sound chassis first, then add on the EBD, and superoptimize it as such, rather than having the EBD as the core concept, is it?

"Build around" to me, is really saying every square inch of the car is intentional and symbiotic. I don't see it as an opportunity for mclaren to pounce.

By that definition, it sounds like the engine and the driver are just about the only two things a car was "built around"

[MIKEY_!]

but i still think red bull will have an edge, unless they were gaining massive amounts from there exhaust and lets not forget along the nose height changes, thats a big change for RB.

RB7 nose height is not that great (at the nose tip at least). It's about average or just below (not counting HRT!) Mclaren's nose is (probably almost) legal for next year.

Silverstone says the RB7 wasn't getting as much from the EBD as Mclaren.

[beelsebob]

but i still think red bull will have an edge, unless they were gaining massive amounts from there exhaust and lets not forget along the nose height changes, thats a big change for RB.

RB7 nose height is not that great (at the nose tip at least). It's about average or just below (not counting HRT!) Mclaren's nose is (probably almost) legal for next year.

Silverstone says the RB7 wasn't getting as much from the EBD as Mclaren.

Ugh, why oh why do people keep brining up Silverstone.

Rule 1 of scientific experiments – change only 1 variable at a time.

Silverstone involved so many --- ups from McLaren that you can draw basically no conclusions from it at all.

I'm sure McLaren rely pretty heavily on their EBD, but you certainly can't draw "more or less than RBR" from one race where McLaren --- up in impressive style.

[hardingfv32]

Rule 1 of scientific experiments – change only 1 variable at a time.

Is this a true statement anymore. Are there not new statistical methods for isolating the data from two tests done at once?

Brian

[SiLo]

There are, as long as the variables are clearly defined, however it was more of a figure of speech to make the point that many factors changed during the course of that weekend and that Mclaren were fairly useless in some respects.

Back to the 27, I think if they develop the sidepods furthers, which would make sense, the channels will simple be larger, and the frontal area of the sidepods will be reduced. Other than that I can't see them changing too much.

[timbo]

Ugh, why oh why do people keep brining up Silverstone.

Stretching things a bit, you can add pre-season testing to that.