Formula E

[autogyro]

You don't need 6.1 surround sound at 192kHz to realise that these cars make an extremely irritating sound.

Perhaps they do Tim but someone listening from a tv is not hearing it.

I think most of the complaints about electric racing sounds are simply the motor heads attempts to hold up the technical vehicle development that is needed for future vehicles for the sake of fossil fuel use.

Having spent a lot of time listening to F1 and other performance care in the places they are used, I can tell you that many of the people I have met there suffer from hearing problems many of them serious hearing damage.
This is also true of some of the musicians I know.
My old friend Ginger Baker has a serious hearing loss thanks he says to Jack Bruce but that is another story.

A slightly irritating noise is far preferable to having your ears permanently damaged IMO.
As to listening on TV, it would be no problem at all to change the sound.
Why not the viewers today all live in an illusion of reality produced by the TV companies and Hollywood all the time.
At the moment the broadcast technology is used to compress and all but destroy sounds but I hope that as it becomes possible to transmit larger amounts of data on the internet and the airwaves etc, it will motivate those controlling these mediums to do what some of us have been trying to promote for years.
Quality surround sound both for basic programs and for 'live' performance.
I have been playing with the live surround idea for nearly 20 years on and off.

[autogyro]

You don't need 6.1 surround sound at 192kHz to realise that these cars make an extremely irritating sound.

Perhaps they do Tim but someone listening from a tv is not hearing it.

I think most of the complaints about electric racing sounds are simply the motor heads attempts to hold up the technical vehicle development that is needed for future vehicles for the sake of fossil fuel use.

Having spent a lot of time listening to F1 and other performance care in the places they are used, I can tell you that many of the people I have met there suffer from hearing problems many of them serious hearing damage.
This is also true of some of the musicians I know.
My old friend Ginger Baker has a serious hearing loss thanks he says to Jack Bruce but that is another story.

A slightly irritating noise is far preferable to having your ears permanently damaged IMO.
As to listening on TV, it would be no problem at all to change the sound.
Why not the viewers today all live in an illusion of reality produced by the TV companies and Hollywood all the time.
At the moment the broadcast technology is used to compress and all but destroy sounds but I hope that as it becomes possible to transmit larger amounts of data on the internet and the airwaves etc, it will motivate those controlling these mediums to do what some of us have been trying to promote for years.
Quality surround sound both for basic programs and for 'live' performance.
I have been playing with the live surround idea for nearly 20 years on and off.

[krisfx]

You don't need 6.1 surround sound at 192kHz to realise that these cars make an extremely irritating sound.

Totally agree, I find the high pitched horrible electric whine harder on the ears than when I was sat at Spa...

[Tim.Wright]

You don't need 6.1 surround sound at 192kHz to realise that these cars make an extremely irritating sound.

Perhaps they do Tim but someone listening from a tv is not hearing it.

I think most of the complaints about electric racing sounds are simply the motor heads attempts to hold up the technical vehicle development that is needed for future vehicles for the sake of fossil fuel use.

Having spent a lot of time listening to F1 and other performance care in the places they are used, I can tell you that many of the people I have met there suffer from hearing problems many of them serious hearing damage.
This is also true of some of the musicians I know.
My old friend Ginger Baker has a serious hearing loss thanks he says to Jack Bruce but that is another story.

A slightly irritating noise is far preferable to having your ears permanently damaged IMO.
As to listening on TV, it would be no problem at all to change the sound.
Why not the viewers today all live in an illusion of reality produced by the TV companies and Hollywood all the time.
At the moment the broadcast technology is used to compress and all but destroy sounds but I hope that as it becomes possible to transmit larger amounts of data on the internet and the airwaves etc, it will motivate those controlling these mediums to do what some of us have been trying to promote for years.
Quality surround sound both for basic programs and for 'live' performance.
I have been playing with the live surround idea for nearly 20 years on and off.

You seem to have a pretty jaded view on this subject.

I would like to see Formula E become very sucessful, but the people involved need to accept that the sound which is both heard and felt is a large proportion of the overall experience.

The fact that it is not only absent in FE but replaced with a very annoying whine is undenniably a negative point of the series. The dissatisfaction that you hear from the public are not puppet opinions pushed oil companies as the skeptics would suggest but real people who recognise something will be missing.

The thing is, this is ONE negative point among literally dozens of possible positive points where FE can successfull if it is run properly. If they can provide either genuine racing without gimmicks or a genuine development environment for electric technology (ideally both together though I think this is almost impossible) then the series will be well supported by manufacturers, followed by fans and will be successful.

If the people involved in FE remain hung up on the noise debate and waste a lot of time and energy trying to tell people that their personal preferences regarding sound are wrong, then they are immediately putting potential fans offside. They need to say simply "yes the sound is not what you are used to, but so what. Here are 100 reasons why the series is more interesting than F1".

[autogyro]

OK Tim, I will go along with that and accept that the noise is not ideal.

However I did suggest that almost any noise can be created on the car using sound technology.
I do not see this as any different than the current supercar practice of designing the exhaust systems for a specific sound rather than trying to reduce exhaust noise to the absolute minimum for acceptable regulated modern road use.

Enthusiasts like us Tim prefer the load ground shaking sounds of F1 cars and other competition vehicles.
Unfortunately today these noises are regularly closing race venues because of noise complaints.
It is a fact of life.

It would be a simple matter to make an FE car sound like an F1 V10 if needed.
Unfortunately the cars would then be prevented from running in City centers because of the noise regulations.

I do believe that a proper development program should be undertaken to establish an acceptable noise.
I would be interested in that.

[Tim.Wright]

I would prefer they just leave the sound as it is (annoying but at least pure and not contrived) and concentrate on more important things such as getting the technical and sporting regulations right.

[lizardfolk]

Personally I think the sound is kinda cool. Reminds me a lot of a Star Trek space ship. I'm assuming a lot of those here aren't sci-fi nerds

Oh well. I'm a nerd and a racing fan. So looks like it's all good for me.

[autogyro]

I would prefer they just leave the sound as it is (annoying but at least pure and not contrived) and concentrate on more important things such as getting the technical and sporting regulations right.

I know what you mean Tim and on balance I tend to agree with you.
However, I see all sounds coming from vehicles as contrived sound and do not know how to define 'pure' sound.

[lizardfolk]

Formula E is a different experience than F1 or traditional motor racing. Whether that experience is still fun or not will depend on when we actually see the cars on track.

But complaining that FE doesn't have that earth shattering (and eardrum shattering tbh) sounds of F1 and traditional motorsports is like complaining that films are different from plays (btw screenwriting draws their heritage from play writing).

It's a different experience. If you dont like it just enjoy it now before the world (both society and the environment) forces it to be gone within the next 100 or so years. I for one will embrace this new experience. Atleast I don't need ear plugs anymore as my ears are actually pretty dear to me

[andylaurence]

Whilst we're on the topic of sound, I'll add my thoughts on the matter. Firstly, I like the sound. It's different, but I find it pleasing. I'm not a Sci-Fi fan either. Secondly, what's appealing about the sound of motor racing is not just the tone and pitch, but the fact that it rises, continually raising to a crescendo when the driver jumps on the brakes and the blips pops and bangs on the downshift provide the excitement as the cars dice for position into the corner. The period of recuperation around the apex takes over before the crescendo starts again. It doesn't matter what engine you have as they all increase in speed. What's important here is the number of discrete ratios. CVT is monotone and doesn't build up to the corner in the same manner. A two-speed gearbox doesn't rise in revs quite as quickly, so it doesn't build the excitement in the same way.

Furthermore, on the topic of noise and the viability of motorsport, I'll leave you with the information that the tyre noise from a single car in the car park caused more complaints than the noise of a dozen cars on the adjacent race track. Exhaust noise has been brought down substantially in recent years at most events. What remains is for tyre manufacturers to make their tyres quieter on the limit.

Finally, I'm quite happy for motorsport to become much quieter. I'm happier taking my kids to a less noisy event and I find it pleasing to be able to hear the commentary (which is also separately regulated to track action at some circuits because the commentary is noisier than the cars) as well as people talking around me.

[Richard]

Energy distribution (and electricity generation) posts now have their own thread

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... =3&t=16183

[Moxie]

That's a nice reply autogyro and I agree with your sentiment. F1 has lost a lot it's real development status, which is why I'm eagerly awaiting Formula E. Really nice regs open to all sorts of interpretation will result in many different approaches, so we're not just seeing 2 almost identical cars racing (spec series) which is what F1 has basically become.

It has lots to offer: audience see new technology, innovation, different cars, strategy, true evolution unfolding before eyes, manufacturers have new revenue streams, mass appeal for relevant consumer road tech, teams and drivers - new revenue streams, new tech to master, new category to master, new sponsorships.

Formular E will show todays audience what F1 was back when radical cars came onto the grid - that is highly watchable.

I'd almost go out on a limb and make the call now that Formula E will become the preeminent Motorsport series in the years to come. Anyone who is anyone will want to make a name, set the standards and have their name on the records list first.

I must agree. The main reason I watch F1 is because of the fabulous cars. Think of the engineering accomplishments of Google and their self driving car. Imagine what they could do in FE...COOL STUFF!!!!

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but the viewers will have to be there BEFORE the manufacturers decide its worthwhile. Which, In my view, is a bit of a sticking point because viewers will want to see the big boys racing BEFORE they decide its worthwhile. I also believe that, were we to see any true innovation, the FIA would quickly move to "reign in costs", besides, unless I'm mistaken, they're required to use Lithium batteries, which will stifle innovation.

The original racers weren't 'big boys' they were enthusiasts that built their own gear and went racing. The throngs loved it. They could relate and could dream about building one in their own garage. Formula E could be no different.

This of course is the dilemma. But if all of the teams are allowed to reap the rewards of innovation, with sufficient prize money reasonably distribute throughout the field, the big boys will establish themselves.

[aleks_ader]

Formula E confirms inaugural calendar

2014/2015 FIA Formula E Championship – Calendar

ROUND CITY DATE
Round 1 Beijing, China 13th September 2014
Round 2 Putrajaya, Malaysia 18th October 2014
Round 3 Rio de Janeiro, Brazil 15th November 2014
Round 4 Punta del Este, Uruguay 13th December 2014
Round 5 Buenos Aires, Argentina 10th January 2015
Round 6 Los Angeles, USA 14th February 2015
Round 7 Miami, USA 14th March 2015
Round 8 Monte Carlo, Monaco* 9th May 2015
Round 9 Berlin, Germany 30th May 2015
Round 10 London, UK 27th June 2015


* All events remain subject to FIA Track Homologation.
More info

[Huntresa]

Virgin becomes 9th team in Formula E http://www.f1times.co.uk/news/display/08287

Also that calender, this gotta be the only Motorsport series that run a season over 2 different years ? Or am i wrong ?

[autogyro]

Subject to FIA track homologation.

I believe this will be the biggest problem at many of the venues.

The performance of the FE cars is much higher than that originally suggested for electric open wheel racers.
The run off areas and safety barriers with very close spectator facilities in these City centers will increase accident potential.
Safety cost is going to be very high at the very least.

My original paper on the subject was for formula 3 equivalent performance and was based on this safety consideration.
The current FIA has a very French bias and the past will show how little safety issues featured in a similar leadership make up.
I am concerned that without people like MM at the helm, the FIA might well lose its way on safety issues.