2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

[Magicsenna_41]

That wing issue has cost them valuable practice time. If the RB get comfortably beaten this weekend, then it’s starting to look like Implosion. The desperation in sweating the MCS wing with protest threats smells of that.


Whoever said that it’s a waste of time to protest the wing is right, MCS have played this very well; they will be using it till the end of the season because no new test will be implemented in time to catch anything - and that’s if there even is anything going on. The war of the wings saga this season has played out and RB have been mugged off if it turns out to be true that the MCS wing is doing something it shouldn’t, but is illegally ‘legal’ because it passes tests

Rumors say Red Bull is trying to convince FIA to introduce new testing directives until Arabia.
Funny enough that the directive for bendy wings issued was introduced very late and also shifted initially from Baku to Paul Ricard.

Jonathan Wheatley with his friendly voice has only friends at FIA it seems ^^

[erudite450]

Classic DiResta upon seeing the pole prediction. ‘I hope that’s wrong.’

Of course it will be, but he just can’t help himself!

Someone should tell Di Resta to try to hide his obvious bias a little bit more.

[AeroDynamic]

That wing issue has cost them valuable practice time. If the RB get comfortably beaten this weekend, then it’s starting to look like Implosion. The desperation in sweating the MCS wing with protest threats smells of that.


Whoever said that it’s a waste of time to protest the wing is right, MCS have played this very well; they will be using it till the end of the season because no new test will be implemented in time to catch anything - and that’s if there even is anything going on. The war of the wings saga this season has played out and RB have been mugged off if it turns out to be true that the MCS wing is doing something it shouldn’t, but is illegally ‘legal’ because it passes tests

Rumors say Red Bull is trying to convince FIA to introduce new testing directives until Arabia.
Funny enough that the directive for bendy wings issued was introduced very late and also shifted initially from Baku to Paul Ricard.

Jonathan Wheatley with his friendly voice has only friends at FIA it seems ^^

Not surprising. I won't be surprised if RB get what they want here, It does feel like the FIA are skewing their effort to RB a little to keep the championship alive. But You also can't knock RB's game with the FIA/Stewards, especially with Jonathan Wheatley, guy's a beast manipulator over the radio, practically puppeteering Massi with his hocus-pocus its very cringe to watch and embarrassing for Massi weather he realises it or not.

RB's strengths over Mercedes is all the Aero and all in the pitwall/crew they're just better. Probably the race room is better to because they ace strategy and it they look immaculate in that area.

MCS seems to be stronger in development, engineering and creative solutions. More genius in that way. That applies to car and engine. I think RB are better at politicking out front but MCS are better behind the scenes

[Dee]

quoting Mexico for your argument is a bit pointless. The Mercedes was as much slower n practice, and then even slower again in the race. the conditions pegged the RB back in Mexico during qualifying.

but I do agree the MCS has been stronger in some circuits where the conditions pegged them back in the drivers WC from maximising – Spa / Turkey / . When I tried to point this out, the RB / MV advocates weren't having it. 'thats not luck' they said. But Monza was thrown away by HAM and partly destroyed by that incident from MV.

The tides just might be turning after all. And this is why I told everybody that MV has to look at himself in Silverstone, he amassed 30+ pts lead as he should when maximising the position of having the best package at the time. Hungary wasn't his fault but Silverstone was something he could control – he could have yielded and bagged 18 its that event, and thats if he couldn't battle again for a different corner or let his team do them on strategy.

Now you look at the difference when Lewis has the better package; he moved out of max's way and lived to take the win, and I expect he will manage this phase of the championship with the better package better than MV did when he had it. Because if MCS walk away with 1-2 this weekend, those 18 pts will be really wanting.

MV/ RB have been fortunate enough to stay ahead from some events when the weather and other external circumstances helped them out a lot. It has evened out his pts loss from Hungary

Max lost 11 points against Hamilton in Baku and 16 against him in Hungary due to no fault of his own - 27 points

Max losing to Merc has absolutey nothing to do with SIlverstone

Silverstone pushes the points total lost to 45/52

[max_speed]

Things not looking good for redbull. championship has swung i guess in Merc favor now, i do not know what Merc did but in last 2 races , something has clicked.

[AeroDynamic]

quoting Mexico for your argument is a bit pointless. The Mercedes was as much slower n practice, and then even slower again in the race. the conditions pegged the RB back in Mexico during qualifying.

but I do agree the MCS has been stronger in some circuits where the conditions pegged them back in the drivers WC from maximising – Spa / Turkey / . When I tried to point this out, the RB / MV advocates weren't having it. 'thats not luck' they said. But Monza was thrown away by HAM and partly destroyed by that incident from MV.

The tides just might be turning after all. And this is why I told everybody that MV has to look at himself in Silverstone, he amassed 30+ pts lead as he should when maximising the position of having the best package at the time. Hungary wasn't his fault but Silverstone was something he could control – he could have yielded and bagged 18 its that event, and thats if he couldn't battle again for a different corner or let his team do them on strategy.

Now you look at the difference when Lewis has the better package; he moved out of max's way and lived to take the win, and I expect he will manage this phase of the championship with the better package better than MV did when he had it. Because if MCS walk away with 1-2 this weekend, those 18 pts will be really wanting.

MV/ RB have been fortunate enough to stay ahead from some events when the weather and other external circumstances helped them out a lot. It has evened out his pts loss from Hungary

Max lost 11 points against Hamilton in Baku and 16 against him in Hungary due to no fault of his own - 27 points

Max losing to Merc has absolutey nothing to do with SIlverstone

Silverstone pushes the points total lost to 45/52

Yeah I don't really look at Baku because 1. that might be team induced error, its a mystery. But secondly, HAM could have made his weakened a nightmare if he didn't have that very unlucky mishandling error on his part. Thankfully he didn't because that would've really upset the championship picture. So while Max did at one point, lose points to lewis that weekend, he also gained 25 back when HAM screwed it up. So I call it even and axe that one, personally.

[El Scorchio]

Things not looking good for redbull. championship has swung i guess in Merc favor now, i do not know what Merc did but in last 2 races , something has clicked.

It’s probably worth waiting until after qualifying. Things could change round a fair bit and I’m sure the gap won’t be so big at the very least. Don’t forget the turnaround from qualifying to race in Mexico either!

[Dee]

quoting Mexico for your argument is a bit pointless. The Mercedes was as much slower n practice, and then even slower again in the race. the conditions pegged the RB back in Mexico during qualifying.

but I do agree the MCS has been stronger in some circuits where the conditions pegged them back in the drivers WC from maximising – Spa / Turkey / . When I tried to point this out, the RB / MV advocates weren't having it. 'thats not luck' they said. But Monza was thrown away by HAM and partly destroyed by that incident from MV.

The tides just might be turning after all. And this is why I told everybody that MV has to look at himself in Silverstone, he amassed 30+ pts lead as he should when maximising the position of having the best package at the time. Hungary wasn't his fault but Silverstone was something he could control – he could have yielded and bagged 18 its that event, and thats if he couldn't battle again for a different corner or let his team do them on strategy.

Now you look at the difference when Lewis has the better package; he moved out of max's way and lived to take the win, and I expect he will manage this phase of the championship with the better package better than MV did when he had it. Because if MCS walk away with 1-2 this weekend, those 18 pts will be really wanting.

MV/ RB have been fortunate enough to stay ahead from some events when the weather and other external circumstances helped them out a lot. It has evened out his pts loss from Hungary

Max lost 11 points against Hamilton in Baku and 16 against him in Hungary due to no fault of his own - 27 points

Max losing to Merc has absolutey nothing to do with SIlverstone

Silverstone pushes the points total lost to 45/52

Yeah I don't really look at Baku because 1. that might be team induced error, its a mystery. But secondly, HAM could have made his weakened a nightmare if he didn't have that very unlucky mishandling error on his part. Thankfully he didn't because that would've really upset the championship picture. So while Max did at one point, lose points to lewis that weekend, he also gained 25 back when HAM screwed it up. So I call it even and axe that one, personally.

Such a mystery that Pirelli had to make new tyres because they couldn't stand over the ones that they had made after two separate cars had blowouts and the new TD's did not affect performace at all until they were made...

Difference in Baku is that Hamilton made a mistake, Max did nothing wrong

And don't even bring up Imola where Lewis got the luckiest red flag in history after crashing out due to messing up an overtake

[politburo]

quoting Mexico for your argument is a bit pointless. The Mercedes was as much slower n practice, and then even slower again in the race. the conditions pegged the RB back in Mexico during qualifying.

but I do agree the MCS has been stronger in some circuits where the conditions pegged them back in the drivers WC from maximising – Spa / Turkey / . When I tried to point this out, the RB / MV advocates weren't having it. 'thats not luck' they said. But Monza was thrown away by HAM and partly destroyed by that incident from MV.

The tides just might be turning after all. And this is why I told everybody that MV has to look at himself in Silverstone, he amassed 30+ pts lead as he should when maximising the position of having the best package at the time. Hungary wasn't his fault but Silverstone was something he could control – he could have yielded and bagged 18 its that event, and thats if he couldn't battle again for a different corner or let his team do them on strategy.

Now you look at the difference when Lewis has the better package; he moved out of max's way and lived to take the win, and I expect he will manage this phase of the championship with the better package better than MV did when he had it. Because if MCS walk away with 1-2 this weekend, those 18 pts will be really wanting.

MV/ RB have been fortunate enough to stay ahead from some events when the weather and other external circumstances helped them out a lot. It has evened out his pts loss from Hungary

Mexico was just a perfect circumstance+luck situation, a narrow track where overtaking is difficult due to so many consecutive slow corners in the first and last sector, which are usually tougher to follow thru on high fuel and nearly every car hitting 340 km/hr on the pit straight thus making DRS a bit less effective.

But we saw COTA and the speed of Hamilton there, as well as Brazil, and now even Qatar. The Merc can easily go into the high 1.19s here with the patterns we usually see from FP3 to Q3. 3 or 4 tenths ahead of one of the best qualifiers in Verstappen is a lot even if it's only FP3.

It just seems the Merc F1 Team has figured it out, and now we are seeing the reality of the performance difference in all it's glory, even in race pace, the Merc with both drivers is just so good especially on harder compounds.

[darkpino]

Max lost 11 points against Hamilton in Baku and 16 against him in Hungary due to no fault of his own - 27 points

Max losing to Merc has absolutey nothing to do with SIlverstone

Silverstone pushes the points total lost to 45/52

Yeah I don't really look at Baku because 1. that might be team induced error, its a mystery. But secondly, HAM could have made his weakened a nightmare if he didn't have that very unlucky mishandling error on his part. Thankfully he didn't because that would've really upset the championship picture. So while Max did at one point, lose points to lewis that weekend, he also gained 25 back when HAM screwed it up. So I call it even and axe that one, personally.

Such a mystery that Pirelli had to make new tyres because they couldn't stand over the ones that they had made after two separate cars had blowouts and the new TD's did not affect performace at all until they were made...

Difference in Baku is that Hamilton made a mistake, Max did nothing wrong

And don't even bring up Imola where Lewis got the luckiest red flag in history after crashing out due to messing up an overtake

I 100% agree, though it does look like RBR is kinda running out of steam towards the end of the season.

In my opinion RBR has just plain been unlucky this season. A bit more luck and they would have been in front by 50 points now but they are clearly not

[AeroDynamic]

Max lost 11 points against Hamilton in Baku and 16 against him in Hungary due to no fault of his own - 27 points

Max losing to Merc has absolutey nothing to do with SIlverstone

Silverstone pushes the points total lost to 45/52

Yeah I don't really look at Baku because 1. that might be team induced error, its a mystery. But secondly, HAM could have made his weakened a nightmare if he didn't have that very unlucky mishandling error on his part. Thankfully he didn't because that would've really upset the championship picture. So while Max did at one point, lose points to lewis that weekend, he also gained 25 back when HAM screwed it up. So I call it even and axe that one, personally.

Such a mystery that Pirelli had to make new tyres because they couldn't stand over the ones that they had made after two separate cars had blowouts and the new TD's did not affect performace at all until they were made...

Difference in Baku is that Hamilton made a mistake, Max did nothing wrong

And don't even bring up Imola where Lewis got the luckiest red flag in history after crashing out due to messing up an overtake

Not everyones tyres popped though, did they? and the cars had less downforce this year. The tyre that did pop wasn't even the one under the most load / stress. It IS a mystery just because Pirelli changed things to protect the tyres from teams manipulating them and getting them to pass tests, doesn't mean they felt they produced bad tyres.

Im not sure what you're saying the difference is for, it is what it is; it begins to even out.

I agree Imola HAM was very lucky, its just the MV advocates who refuse to acknowledge where the luck has gone their way.

[search]

Things not looking good for redbull. championship has swung i guess in Merc favor now, i do not know what Merc did but in last 2 races , something has clicked.

It’s probably worth waiting until after qualifying. Things could change round a fair bit and I’m sure the gap won’t be so big at the very least. Don’t forget the turnaround from qualifying to race in Mexico either!

normally it's the other way around: FP3 is Red Bull strongest session, and they lose a bit of ground in Qualifying. Of course, it doesn't necessarily need to happen again today, but so far Red Bull has only taken pole once this year (in Austria) after not taking FP3 before

[AeroDynamic]

It just seems the Merc F1 Team has figured it out, and now we are seeing the reality of the performance difference in all it's glory, even in race pace, the Merc with both drivers is just so good especially on harder compounds.

maybe someone can attempt to break down the performance, but from what I see, the Mercedes has found a way to sort of equalise their car philosophy under these floor regs, to compensate against the RB High rake advantage. They had a low rake that only worked well with a larger floor and floor slots. Both were banned, and less floor is basically castrating that low-rake philosophy. but now they run a car that goes from 'low-rake' to no-rake on the straights, its an equaliser of sorts. now they can do no-rake they have all that high speed on the straights–and crucially–they can run high downforce levels like they would in Monaco, which eliminates the advantage RB/MV had with their rake /DF around corners. Now the MCS can corner much more competitively around corners with all that DF they can keep on, without killing their straight line pace.

Its great to show everyone that the RB is why drivers sing around corners, its not all skill like some low-resolution thinking fans thought it is. It's DF as much has the driver. When MV gets his championship(s) In a RB it will be fun to watch him fight people without the best aero package / car for corners at the front of the grid.

[Dee]

Yeah I don't really look at Baku because 1. that might be team induced error, its a mystery. But secondly, HAM could have made his weakened a nightmare if he didn't have that very unlucky mishandling error on his part. Thankfully he didn't because that would've really upset the championship picture. So while Max did at one point, lose points to lewis that weekend, he also gained 25 back when HAM screwed it up. So I call it even and axe that one, personally.

Such a mystery that Pirelli had to make new tyres because they couldn't stand over the ones that they had made after two separate cars had blowouts and the new TD's did not affect performace at all until they were made...

Difference in Baku is that Hamilton made a mistake, Max did nothing wrong

And don't even bring up Imola where Lewis got the luckiest red flag in history after crashing out due to messing up an overtake

Not everyones tyres popped though, did they? and the cars had less downforce this year. The tyre that did pop wasn't even the one under the most load / stress. It IS a mystery just because Pirelli changed things to protect the tyres from teams manipulating them and getting them to pass tests, doesn't mean they felt they produced bad tyres.

Im not sure what you're saying the difference is for, it is what it is; it begins to even out.

I agree Imola HAM was very lucky, its just the MV advocates who refuse to acknowledge where the luck has gone their way.

You are deciding to believe something that never existed.

Pirelli would never change tyres if they felt that the teams were cheating and a new TD would fix it.

Tyres blew last year in SIlverstone and Monza and Pirelli did not turn around and make brand new tyres for the rest of the season yet they felt they had to do something this year, because they had produced tyres which didn't fit their own parameters.

Again, the TD's did not affect any race pace or qualy pace delta's. Teams messing with the tyres would have seen a change in performance. There was none.

[politburo]

Things not looking good for redbull. championship has swung i guess in Merc favor now, i do not know what Merc did but in last 2 races , something has clicked.

Since Monza tbh. If it wasn't for Bottas taking an engine penalty and Hamilton DNF it would've been an easy Merc win. Monza, Sochi, Instanbul were all Merc advantage, Mexico and Brazil as well but they messed up when allowing Hamilton to pass Bottas in Mexico and that was it, couldn't get close S3 to setup overtakes and just dropped back anyway. Only COTA was reasonably close in Qualy and in the race the Merc was faster and could push the tires so much harder throughout the stint.