2010 regulation row on £40m budget cap

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ernos5
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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Giblet wrote:If the cars keep getting quicker, the runoff of the courses, including the multi million dollar super tracks that Tilke keeps pumping out, will not be long enough for a car to stop safely, and deaths will occur.

If Kubica's crash was any faster in Canada. Like even 10 MPH, he would likely have no feet right now. Kubica was very lucky that his feet and ankles were dangling out the front of the car, and he was OK. Since he survived, everyone moved on to the next thing, as we all applauded the cars safety. He was "this close" to dead.

The key is to learn from lessons in the past, and what we learned was if you let the engineers keep developing the cars under the same rules, they will become too quick, and drivers will die. No amount of car excitement can or should be traded in for a drivers life. The rate of development is too high now, and unfortunately the rules need to keep being tweaked to keep the speeds in corners from growing too much year to year.

That being said, I miss the V10's a little bit, but like many other great things, they will be forever remembered and respected, like the V12 Ferrari, V8 DFV, and the 1.5l TC Engines.
Well then as the cornering grip and speed on the straights keeps on increasing, then so too should the brakes so it won't require half a kilometer to slow down. Okay there is a limit, if there is no regulations then the cars will reach speeds where the driver is the limit of the speed. When we almost get to that stage, they could stop all developments and just keep it that way for years to come, not slowing down the cars, look the drivers survived in 2004, why can't we have that back? There's no need to slow it down even more.

Giblet
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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@ernos

Why do you hate Hamilton so much?

I was looking at your posts, and your avatar, and sig graphic, and they all say HATE.

Hate takes energy. Why you hate him so much, enough to make a public showing of it? It makes everything else you say carry less weight as it all seems to be looked through a tinted lens.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

Giblet
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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And as for speeds, you are just wrong. Just because everyone survived means nothing at all.

That's like saying that smoking hasn't killed me yet, so I should smoke more. How do you figure that braking distances will change the increasing cornering speeds? Your arguments lack any kind of weight whatsoever.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

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ISLAMATRON
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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ernos5 wrote:Speed beyond what we've seen before would definitely make F1 more interesting. That's what we need, faster cars. After all you can't call this the pinnacle of motor sport then. Yes the V8's are pretty loud, but on TV they put the volume of the cars right down so you can't hear the cars, just the commentators blabbing on about the obvious aspects of the race.

F1 is already fast enough to be called dangerous. But it's not life threatening, look how safe the cars are! Faster cars would definitely be more exciting, especially seeing how the drivers cope with these cars and which ones would be willing to take risks. They get paid so much, might as well make it risky and worth it.
SO back in 89 when Senna & Prost & Mansell and Piquet were all running F1 was not the "Pinnacle" of motorsport because those cars are not as fast as todays? Your argument is asinine... F1 is clearly the "pinnacle" of open wheel racing in 2009 and it would continue to be under the 2010 regulations. Nobody involved with the sport, not the FIA, not the drivers, not the teams would want unlimited rules... it would be too fast and far outside the safety required for the drivers & fans.

If I put you at a fast corner in F1 you could not tell me which of the 20 drivers went thru that corner the fastest, whether you were at the track or watching on TV.

NAme 1 open wheel(or closed wheel) car, racing today, that can lap Silverstone, or Turkey, or Monza or even Monaco faster than an F1 car.... THERE is NONE, and that is what makes F1 the pinnacle of open wheel racing.

If you actually examined the 2010 regs you would see that the cars the capped teams would be running in qualifying trim would be much faster than this years cars.

Giblet
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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On August 20, 2006, Toyota F1 test driver Ricardo Zonta set an unofficial lap record of 1'06.039.[7] The previous record time was 1'07.722, set by Helio Castroneves in a Penske Champ Car during qualifying for the 2000 CART Honda Grand Prix of Monterey. The unofficial record was re-taken by a Champ Car on March 10, 2007 by Sébastien Bourdais, who lapped in 1'05.880 during Champ Car Spring Training.
Officially, Castroneves is still the recordholder as Zonta's and Bourdais' times were set during exhibition and testing sessions, and official records can only be set in race conditions (either in qualifying or during a race).

So close, but not quite.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

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ISLAMATRON
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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I remember that, Kevin Kalkoven put up a bounty for the driver that could beat Zonta's time.... Those Champ cars were fast with that push to pass button.

Giblet
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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From what I think I know, F1's biggest advantages over other series is quickness of turn in, and of course, the brakes.

Both of these things are not as important on the gradual sweeps and off camber corners that Laguna offers. I think these differences would be hugely amplified on the courses you mentioned.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

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ernos5
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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Giblet wrote:@ernos

Why do you hate Hamilton so much?

I was looking at your posts, and your avatar, and sig graphic, and they all say HATE.

Hate takes energy. Why you hate him so much, enough to make a public showing of it? It makes everything else you say carry less weight as it all seems to be looked through a tinted lens.
don't look at my avatar then lol

Giblet
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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Sorry, I was just asking why you hate him so much? I didn't want for you to focus on me looking at your avatar. "don't look at my avatar then lol" is kind of a weak answer, but ok.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

andartop
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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What happens if the protesting teams decide to go on a "strike"?
Monaco would be a good place to do that, what with all the media's extra attention for it being the "jewel" of racetracks and all the VIPs around..
It would be interesting to see what happens if just the Brawns, Williams and Force Indias appear on the grid, though with McLaren's situation after the "liegate" I strongly suspect they wouldn't dare do anything like that and they would race as well.
But the actual race would be so bloody boring that they might end up killing two birds with one stone: getting FIA to finally realize how serious the problem is and getting rid of Monaco!!! :twisted:
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. H.P.Lovecraft

xpensive
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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In all honesty, I fail to see how they can put Humpty Dumpty, or MrE's piggy-bank, together again after this mess?

Talk to Tony George about him amending the IRL rules for 2010 perhaps?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

gibells
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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This all makes me so maaad. :evil:
Why why why mess with these things. Is it being too naive to ask that this messy politics is left at the door. Cost cutting with FOTA was going so well last year. Coming up with ideas that could actually lessen the burden without taking away the spectacle. Like 4 race gearboxes, 3 race engines (you know what i mean). Even standardized wheels/other components which would make little/no effect on the racing. What seems to have happened now is that Max has taken the matter into his own hands, which is frankly bo//ox. I think we need to keep going along the thread of coming up with sensible ideas to reduce the core cost of running the cars/teams/etc.

Ferrari (and others-BMW, Toyota) aren't helping themselves by unashamedly spending masses and not having a lot to show for it. Look at Brawn- now he has to do it himself, he's catching Easyjet flights, etc. in order to try and make the budget stretch a little. He's also thinking a lot smarter than the others. Which is what success/F1 is about.

The end line should be with the car companies shareholders. Not Max.

u401768
u401768
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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plus £400,000,000 of Honda R&D spend for the previous 18 months.... and has to strech the £70,000,000 that they had from Honda to take the racing team....

And that raises the question - are any of the teams spending anything near the £40,0000,000 that is being talked about?

The only one i can think of is STR - but would that include the RB central design?

May be there is a case for custumer teams? Just a max of 1 per team?

u401768
u401768
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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this throws an interesting spin on court case - its the article called "Did the FIA really win the court case?"

url:- http://joesaward.wordpress.com/

We know Ferrari is talking about other legal action too…

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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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A mighty interesting angle U-boat, coming from Joe Saward, it caries a certain weight at that. Thanks.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"