Japanese GP 2009 - Suzuka

[ISLAMATRON]

Truilli only "outpaced" THE BOSS only when the KERS(and thus the rear braking) went kaput... THE BOSS had his lead up to 3.5 secs when the KERS took a dump.

The Truilli train is real... but not today, great job by him.... just getting a good start is a great job for Truilli these days.

Even before Hamilton's KERS malfunctioned, it was clear he couldn't open the gap from Trulli. They asked him on the radio long before the pit stop to make a 3 seconds gap, while it was about 2.2 seconds and he struggled to increase it to 3.4 seconds, then Trulli started closing in again.
For all we know, Trulli might have still come out ahead of Hamilton even without the KERS problem.
As we don't know, we have to go by the official results of the race.

SpeedTV played the radio contact when he was asked to push it to 3 seconds, it was less than 2 seconds when we heard it, and it was on a delay... Lewis pushed it to 3.5 secs, so not only could he open the gap, HE DID. And then the KERS broke and affected the rear braking as well. It was quite clear that Lewis had Truilli at bay until the KERS let go. Still a great grive by JT, and also impressive that LH was able to hold off KIMI on the restart, whose KERS was just fine.

[ESPImperium]

The 8 engine block rules are a farce... totally worthless if they wont enforce them.

It has to be a 10 spot penalty for every race started with any engine other than the 8 allocated.

And they need to bump it up to 10 next year, more races(hopefully)

I think its still gonna be the eight engines tho. But should be increased at least to 9 for next year with there being 19 GP to this years 17

However, i would like to see a gearbox rule simmilar to the engine rule, with each driver having 6 gearboxes for the season.

[Richard]

The 8 engine block rules are a farce... totally worthless if they wont enforce them.

It has to be a 10 spot penalty for every race started with any engine other than the 8 allocated.

Every race is way too harsh imho.

Yes, people are avoiding the rule. If the penalty is to be effective, they should carry over any unused penelty to the next race. That would mean Heidfeld would have had the penalty for Japan, not Singapore. The carry over would only last one race otherwise a back makers would never pay it off!

We can also see a similar rule in football in England. If a club goes bankrupt they get a 15 point penalty. Then some clubs started declaring themselves bust on the last day of the season to avoid the penalty hitting them the following season. As a result, the penalty (in certain conditions) now hits the club the following season.

[andartop]

SpeedTV played the radio contact when he was asked to push it to 3 seconds, it was less than 2 seconds when we heard it, and it was on a delay... Lewis pushed it to 3.5 secs, so not only could he open the gap, HE DID. And then the KERS broke and affected the rear braking as well. It was quite clear that Lewis had Truilli at bay until the KERS let go. Still a great grive by JT, and also impressive that LH was able to hold off KIMI on the restart, whose KERS was just fine.

Sorry to insist on this one, but it appears you got some facts wrong. BBC played the radio contact as well, and the gap was 2.2 seconds when Lewis was asked to increase it at 3. It took quite a few laps for him to get it up to a maximum of 3.4 seconds, and then Trulli started closing in again. At that point, when Trulli started closing the difference again that is, Hamilton's KERS was working just fine. The KERS malfunctioned only after the second pit stop. And here's proof of that, by Mr Hamilton himself:

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/10/ ... -hamilton/

After the restart, there was not a single overtaking throughout the whole field: so, either everyone drove very impressively or very conservatively..

[King Six]

Now, everybody knows that British TV commentators love to talk about British drivers, but I think today it got beyond the point of silliness ..

It seems to be a Croft disease. Croft is the problem, Brundle is more balanced. You should listen to the BBC radio commentary by pressing the red button on your telly. Its very good, great tech info from Anthony Davidson, and none of that hysteric-I've-got-TO-RAISE-MY-VOICE-BECAUSE-THERE-IS-A-CAR-10-SECS-BEHIND-ANOTHER-WITH-2-LAPS-LEFT-AND-THEY-MIGHT-OVERTAKE-THEM-SOON that you get on the telly.

Anyway, it not just the BBC, I've had the fate of watching F1 on German and Spanish TV in the Schumi and Alonso championship years. I don't speak those languages but do recognise the names and and I'd say they were the same, if not worse.

When watching the Friday practice it's Anthony Davidson and some other (clueless) guy who's commentating. Davidson really does provide some genuinely interesting insight, the guy is a clever chap and he seems to know what he's talking about. They should promote him to proper commentator or something. Then again, he is still working as a test driver for Brawn (what the hell do they do if there's a ban on in season testing)

[roost89]

Now, everybody knows that British TV commentators love to talk about British drivers, but I think today it got beyond the point of silliness ..

It seems to be a Croft disease. Croft is the problem, Brundle is more balanced. You should listen to the BBC radio commentary by pressing the red button on your telly. Its very good, great tech info from Anthony Davidson, and none of that hysteric-I've-got-TO-RAISE-MY-VOICE-BECAUSE-THERE-IS-A-CAR-10-SECS-BEHIND-ANOTHER-WITH-2-LAPS-LEFT-AND-THEY-MIGHT-OVERTAKE-THEM-SOON that you get on the telly.

Anyway, it not just the BBC, I've had the fate of watching F1 on German and Spanish TV in the Schumi and Alonso championship years. I don't speak those languages but do recognise the names and and I'd say they were the same, if not worse.

When watching the Friday practice it's Anthony Davidson and some other (clueless) guy who's commentating. Davidson really does provide some genuinely interesting insight, the guy is a clever chap and he seems to know what he's talking about. They should promote him to proper commentator or something. Then again, he is still working as a test driver for Brawn (what the hell do they do if there's a ban on in season testing)

When Ant is on Radio 5 Live (which I much prefer to normal commentary) I think David (Crofty) Croft is on aswell. I've no idea who's in the other group. Croft is quite good, he's pandering to the less initiated in F1 but he does a good job of it. Anthonies insight is really nice, his earlier races were rather good, explaining things only a driver could really pick up on.

With regard the other commentary...the main BBC group is rather annoying. DC doesn't seem to be allowed to tell you very much or he doesn't want to. Eddie, I just think he goes for the throat, good but can grate on you. Jake is a good anchor and mediatre I must say.
Brundle is sounding out-dated now with his tech and never gets allowed to give you much detail because Legard digs in with some comment.I preferred him when he was at ITV. Legard talks...really...slowly...and has bursts of sentences which really gets on my...nerves. It's like he's trying to fill space, he probably is. Then he asks the most inane questions and doesn't drop them, seemingly to annoy Brundle. Ted Kravitz has a better role on the BBC than on ITV, he's got more reign and actually gives a nice insight on the pit straight, although he does wear a silly race-suit.


I think they have a good mix of annoying and likeable characters. Jake was a surprise to me, he genuinely enjoys being at the races and looks like he does too, best of all he's an F1 nut!

For positions:
Ant is better than Brundle for tech knowledge
Croft is better than Legard for general commentary and neutrality (not saying he's neutral but he's more so than Legard)
Kravitz is better than Holly Samos for getting the scoops and inside info.

Most of all BBC > ITV but it still has some work to become more neutral.

[ISLAMATRON]

SpeedTV played the radio contact when he was asked to push it to 3 seconds, it was less than 2 seconds when we heard it, and it was on a delay... Lewis pushed it to 3.5 secs, so not only could he open the gap, HE DID. And then the KERS broke and affected the rear braking as well. It was quite clear that Lewis had Truilli at bay until the KERS let go. Still a great grive by JT, and also impressive that LH was able to hold off KIMI on the restart, whose KERS was just fine.

Sorry to insist on this one, but it appears you got some facts wrong. BBC played the radio contact as well, and the gap was 2.2 seconds when Lewis was asked to increase it at 3. It took quite a few laps for him to get it up to a maximum of 3.4 seconds, and then Trulli started closing in again. At that point, when Trulli started closing the difference again that is, Hamilton's KERS was working just fine. The KERS malfunctioned only after the second pit stop. And here's proof of that, by Mr Hamilton himself:

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/10/ ... -hamilton/

After the restart, there was not a single overtaking throughout the whole field: so, either everyone drove very impressively or very conservatively..

And here... http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79230, and also during the post race press conference he says it was before the second stop. although he seems unsure... I clearly remember the radio from the pits before his second stop regarding his KERS failure... and on F1.com he claims that he had a gearbox problem exiting the pits, and coasted for about 100 meters.

"Just before or after the last stop I lost KERS, so that automatically lost us a few tenths per lap, then the brake balance changes," said Hamilton.

"I had to have a three second gap before the last stop, and had 3.1 then there was the last couple of laps, and I lost half a second.

[Paul]

1) I did say the loss would be more than 0.2

2) They can turn off the system so it doesn't charge it, at all...

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, I did agree with you that the loss would be more than the gain. I only presumed it was for a different reason.

[ringo]

At the end of the day he had to make a 3 second gap before the pit stop and he made it 3.5, so he did his job. A very valuable driver to have; one that can materialize time when needed especially when its way easier said than done.
The toyota was superior car that day and was clearly much stronger on this kind of track. Hamilton lost his place only because the car was in neutral after he exited the pits losing maybe about a second.
It was the BOSS' skills that held the faster toyota at bay, remember this car is more suited to this track than the Mclaren. Lewis shouldn't even be on the podium much less in the points. A good race by him and truli; at least he proves that he can take an inferior car and put it on the podium; i was expecting him to fade away like in turkey.

[PlatinumZealot]

Yep, the KERS stopped before the second pitstop.

Here have a look..his gearbox also stopped working momentarily for a second or two after he exited the pits. You can see the higher peak on the graph for Hamilton on the pitlap vs Trulli's. Yes Hamilton is that good.. =D>



taken from

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/10/04/r ... -analysis/

According to F1 fanatic he could have came out before Trulli with a 0.3 second gap lead. But then again Trulli was very fast in the third stint.. he would have pressure Hamilton to the end.

[WhiteBlue]

Anyway, it not just the BBC, I've had the fate of watching F1 on German and Spanish TV in the Schumi and Alonso championship years. I don't speak those languages but do recognise the names and and I'd say they were the same, if not worse.

Yeah, if you listen to tumb nuts like Heiko Wasser and Kai Ebel on RTL it makes me physically sick. So I have long ago switched to Sky where former Swiss F1 driver Marc Surer lifts the quality of the comentary team to such lofty heights unheard off in German media.

[andartop]

Well, Islam, I have to admit you re right: according to the press conference, Lewis himself doesn't know whether the KERS malfunctioned before or after the pit stop. (Guess that might indicate it didn't make that much of a difference, as he would probably remember if it did!)
He also describes how he was generally struggling with the car a bit at the last stint due to the lighter fuel load.
Oh, and he admits that despite the KERS problem, he didn't manage to exit the last corner close enough to Jarno at the restart after the SC to have half a chance of overtaking.

With all said and done, I respect that you are convinced that without the KERS problem Lewis would have finished second. I have my doubts, but I have no problem to admit that might as well have been the case.

In any case, either right in front of him or right behind, the thing is that this race proved either a) that the "Trulli train" can be as fast as "The Boss", or b) that "The Boss" can be as slow as the "Trulli train"!

[axle]

One side note from the race and quali is that I feel the F1 teams are failing to nuture new talent...they expect too much too young.

Jaime, Romain, Nelshinho, Buemi, and possibly Hulkenberg next year...they are all potentially being pulled in far too early in their careers. There are clearly drivers that are that bit special like Vettel who can drive well at 19/20 and develop well in F1 but it's not like there are lots of Vettel's in the world...even Lewis was 22 when he started and he's a rare talent like Vettel.

I think the teams are being irresponsible putting drivers like Jaime in an F1 car so early without proper testing and without a decent number of championships to their name.

I hope Hulkenberg can join Vettel and Lewi's club rather than the early learners one...F1 should not be a playground for drivers...it should be a masters degree...

[Richard]

oops.. got my names mixed up.

Radio 5 is Jonathan Legard and Anthony Davidon
TV is Robert Croft and Martin Brundle

Agreed with all preceding comments.

Davindson gets more time to explain and Croft defers to his experience. Wheras Brundle gets steamrollered by Croft saying "there is a car, yes I can confirm it is a car, and it is going VERY FAST, gosh its GOING VERY VERY FAST"

What really really annoys me about Legard is the way he gets excited about cars catching and overtaking on the last few laps. I wish someone would explain to him that being an endurance event, the cars will slow down a bit to ensure they get points in the bag. So if the leader is 30 sec ahed with 5 laps to go, it is no suprise that they lap 1 sec slower. Legard seems to think that the guys in second place can then miraculously catch and overtake on the last corner.

Finally, brillaint quote by DC yesterday. Jordon was doing his usual "in my opion" routine, then DC cut in with his quiet scottish accent to say "Well with all due respect to Eddie, he has never driven a Formula 1 car. What's really happening is .... "

[freedom_honda]

Does anyone have the video of Button passing Kubica? I can't find it anywhere.