My "Custard Dampers" idea from a page or 2 back would fit that behaviour - as load decreases under lower downforce, damper resistance drops allowing compression to take place as the damper has effectively softened relative to it's behaviour at full load. The damper then re-stiffens as aero load increases.ringo wrote:I want to know why the splitter scrapes the ground in the turns, that's what i wanna know!
No explanations yet.
Non Newtonian behavior then?avatar wrote:My "Custard Dampers" idea from a page or 2 back would fit that behaviour - as load decreases under lower downforce, damper resistance drops allowing compression to take place as the damper has effectively softened relative to it's behaviour at full load. The damper then re-stiffens as aero load increases.ringo wrote:I want to know why the splitter scrapes the ground in the turns, that's what i wanna know!
No explanations yet.
Precisely!ringo wrote:Non Newtonian behavior then?
Hi,avatar wrote:A 2 stage damper:
1st stage=standard spring/damper (ride)
2nd stage=custard damper (ride height)
The “custard damper” contains a non-Newtonian fluid (like instant custard – hence the name).
Resistance of the fluid is proportional to the pressure applied. The force exerted on the fluid will drop as fuel burns off (nothing abnormal there).
The fluid being instant custard however, the resistance offered will reduce as the load decreases, causing the damper to compress, up to the the point where (due to the container volume reducing) the pressure reaches a critically high level and the resistance firms to the point where the compression is halted.
- effectively reducing rideheight in it’s adjustment to the new load.
– As fuel burns off, the ride height is reduced…
(just a brainwave – feel free to pick holes)
Notes:
The custard damper must be sprung (relatively weakly) to allow ridehight recovery between Qually and race and not under aero load.
As the majority of load absent until in motion & with the standard spring/damper smoothing the bumps, the [relatively] weakly sprung damper should hold up until the non-Newtonian effects take over under load.
Setup would be relatively knife-edge with instant custard, but then that’s often the norm in high-end motorsport.
Particularly setting avoiding inadvertent rideheight changes under differing loads around a lap, though low rideheaght for ground-effect should be more critical in high aero load in highspeed corners, so setup could target those conditions.
The “custard effect” could of course be achieved with some valve system that chokes/closes off based on the pressure exerted, which would be more tunable, but is a bit more than I can design without putting pen to paper.
With a standard fluid, the second stage would effectively be a timer, ticking down under high downforce load, to it's lowest rideheight after x minutes of running. - this may in fact be enough for many teams & is simpler!thor wrote: Hi,
Why the second stage damper needs a non-Newtonian fluid? Imagine a damper with a huge friction coefficient (over-damping system) based on a traditional hydraulic fluid moving between two chambers "almost" sealed.
Such damper under pressure of aerodynamics (maybe 1,000 Kg of weight) could have a compression velocity of 0,1mm/min and it could be reach 3mm of decreasing in height in 30-40 minutes of Qualifying, giving to the car its best performance at Q3...
Once the car is in the parc femme, the spring recovers the original height in 30 minutes. On the race day and full of fuel the car is in the same way than its rivals at the beginning but during the race the aerodynamics compress the second stage damper again while the fuel is decreasing lap after lap.
At the end of the race the car will be at the minimum height allowed by regulations as in Q3 (empty of fuel) but the rivals are 3mm above in height as in Q3 too.
Is it possible to build such extremely stiffness damper? Why not?
Sorry for my English.
autogyro wrote:Fit a flap over the bleed valve that only allows oil to bleed when the car is moving(and working the suspension) and you can time the ride level to go down from the 4mm gained from jacking (to take full fuel load), to finishing the race at the same ride height with nearly empty fuel.
Yes, you are right. This cylinder with a piston is the "second stage damper" in the figure above, and it should include the stiffness spring to recover the 3-4mm compressed once the car is stopped.marcush. wrote:boys,I was talking about this months ago....
It is super simple... you need a cylinder with a piston incorporating a small bleed hole and a specified oil to achieve this effect...
Thanks.I do not understand your idea. If the car is moving you have a big downforce over the suspensions and when the car is stopped this force is zero. IMO it is not necessary any flap over the bleed valve. The spring recover the height (3-4mm) when the downforce is not present any more.autogyro wrote:Fit a flap over the bleed valve that only allows oil to bleed when the car is moving(and working the suspension) and you can time the ride level to go down from the 4mm gained from jacking (to take full fuel load), to finishing the race at the same ride height with nearly empty fuel.
