COTA Austin - construction and infrastructure

[WhiteBlue]

[...] I am not aware that Tavo Hellmund is a contributer to F1technical under a nick. The only explanation I have is a misunderstanding of my post and my intentions by you.

[DaveKillens]

If there is indeed a problem with the access roads as DaveKillens thinks the release is not very specific about that. It only says they have hired specialists for traffic management. I wish the Austin GP all the best. And I have no problem whatsoever with any opinion who must pay for access road improvement if that is a contentious issue.

I picked this up yesterday on my mobile feed .....

Traffic concerns are the latest difficulty facing organisers of the proposed US Grand Prix in Texas

Travis County planners submitted a report which stated to meet guidelines requiring the area of the circuit to be clear of fans within the required three hours would take as much as $15 million in road improvements and could not be completed by 2012 even if work started now.

The Austin American Statesman reported Travis County officials had estimated around 120,000 spectators would attend a grand prix using 35,000 vehicles. To clear the venue it would need additional lanes built on existing highways.

"Two years is not enough time to put in the infrastructure needed to get down to three hours," Joe Gieselman, manager of Travis County's Transportation and Natural Resources Department, told the newspaper. "I would not look for the major improvements to be done by the first race."

The report coincided with local promoter Full Throttle Productions (FTP) making its second visit to the Travis County Commissioners Court seeking permits to site and build the estimated US$200 million venue. A fortnight ago FTP was criticised by the court for its lack of traffic studies and other basic information, and officials said without this they could not even make preliminary decisions about the project.

There are also concerns being raised about who would be expected to foot the bill for work done to the local infrastructure.

Richard Suttle, FTP's lawyer, told the court: "We heard loud and clear … the information flow is going to open up." The organisation submitted more detailed plans aimed at addressing many of the court's concerns. Suttle explained FTP had also commissioned an environmental report and hired two traffic engineering firms to conduct studies.

He admitted that to meet targets groundbreaking would "have to take place by December".

http://en.espnf1.com/usracing/motorspor ... 28966.html

[WhiteBlue]

$15m does not sound like an unsurmountable obstacle considering that Texas will chip in $25m per annum. They should somehow find the finance for this.

[DaveKillens]

True WB, but my impression is that the local authorities who do have the power to make or break the deal aren't too pleased that Full Throttle Productions might be playing games and aren't being transparent and up front with them.

[segedunum]

Watch and laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vph_Bdvm-kU

This idiot even starts saying they have to start shifting dirt in December this year.

There's no way this is going to happen. I think Bernie thinks that if he shoehorns enough ejits into pumping in government money or private money that will never see a return into building circuits maybe he'll have enough to fill a calendar.

All of the traditional venues that have strong attendances are making losses as well, and no doubt we will see Spa off the calendar again very soon. These tin pot circuit developments have no chance.

[DaveKillens]

If this wasn't so important for the future of Formula One in the USA, I'd pee myself in laughter. For a presentation, Richard Suttle (the lawyer representing FTP) tried to B.S. his way through the entire hearing. He was honest in the pipeline thing and the noise issue, but for all other questions, he had nothing but hot air.

If I was a member of the Travis County Commissioners Court, FTP would not get my approval at this stage.

[WhiteBlue]

From the youtube video it seems to be clear that FTP was caught early with the announcement of the race by Ecclestone. They did not have their planning up to date when the public learned about the race. I'm sure they will make their home work and present a much stronger case the next time around. In the wider Austin area the economic impact was estimated at $300m and I'm surprised they did not table at least that figure and simply said they expect a big chunk of that to come to the county. Also on the question of evacuation needs you should be able to say that F1 races typically do not encounter a need to emergency evacuate the facility as you may have to do with a chemical production complex. There is no serious risk potential of the GP going wrong that may require an evacuation except for a terrorist bomb threat which can happen to a football stadium in similar fashion. The guy could have at least mentioned that. Next time Hellmund should probably send a team with much more preparation. Nevertheless I believe that this project will happen.

[DaveKillens]

There is a gas pipeline running under the complex. And in the USA, they do plan for terrorist attack, regardless of the opinion of others. If you just walked in and tried to casually dismiss the threat of terrorist attack, it would be like pissing into the wind.

I honestly expected better from this outfit, I thought that by the time the venue was announced, they would have their homework done and be prepared to be in line with local ordinance and the desires of local legislators.

[WhiteBlue]

So what are the typical US evacuation requirements for a huge football stadium? The pipelines btw. will not run under the spectator areas. So a fire will not necessarily require an evacuation. A densely packed stadium would be under more threat than the spectators who are distributed over a relatively large area. To hit an F1 track with a two mile diagonal you probably need a tactical nuke while a stadium would be under threat even by a conventional weapon like a big MOAB type of fuel air explosive (150 m blast radius). Delivering such weapons with a mass of ten metric tons is not done with spontaneous weekend logistics either. You need a cargo plane with a load capacity exceeding ten metric tons. A typical Skydiver plane will only take a third of that. The necessary aircraft are strictly military and would not be easy to procure. So the probability of such an attack must be pretty remote considering that there are much easier targets to hit.

[DaveKillens]

It's no secret you're heavily pro-Bernie, and attempting to defend all decisions that come from his office. I'm not going to argue your spirited defence of your opinion. I am just relaying info, and anyone else can make up their own mind.

Go argue with someone else, I'm not taking the bait.

[WhiteBlue]

Thanks. I'm not at all pro Bernie but I think that the US should have a GP and the Austin plan is the best I have seen so far.

[DaveKillens]

I dearly want a GP in the USA, and I also agree that the Austin plan is really nice. But in the USA, the words "public safety" carry an incredible amount of weight, and such things as the requirement to evacuate is as powerful as the fire code.

And in that litigation-crazy nation, the county has to ensure they did everything they could to avoid lawsuits if ever they relaxed the requirement on evacuation. For instance, a pedestrian bridge at the track at Charlotte collapsed in 2000. Here's some info on lawsuits that followed.
http://www.jayski.com/pages/tracks/laws ... bridge.htm

But these public officials are not to be taken lightly, they are not fools, and if anyone attempts to pull a fast one on them, they will retaliate.

My opinion is that the legal team attempting to win favor and approval from these elected officials made a horrible first impression. That just makes it all the more difficult to win approval in time to host the GP in 2012.

[andrew]

Don't worry, if all else fails they can have the GP round the streetsof Aberdeen. Dodging the potholes will add an extra factor and may increase overtaking!

Seriously though, this reminds me some-what of the Donington and Simon Gillet fiasco.

[alelanza]

Watch and laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vph_Bdvm-kU

Wow, and here i was, really wishing to get a GP closer to home. 2012 seems rather unlikely.

[Professor]

I have seen the next to last revision of the site grading plans. I have two comments: apparently the plans are very mature and have been developed over many months, well before the announcement in May. Second, there seems to be a robust eco plan that includes development of a wetlands area in the floodplain. This is located on the lower elevations of the property and not in the vicinity of the circuit. There were 73 drawings and I have included a few of them on my blog to give a general impression of the site plan's completeness.

http://www.formula1journal.com/2010/10/ ... flood.html