Group Lotus buys Renault F1 Team

[FW17]

One of the things that I feel wrong with Dany and Group Lotus plans is that they as a manufacturer is trying to reinvent themselves from one class of sports cars to a super car maker.

Group Lotus has to prove to that they have the what it takes to once again produce a classic car, if this means through F1 then it should have been starting from scratch and proving and showcase to the entire world that they have the organizational and technical capability.

Buying into a existing team is just the very wrong way of doing this. Had they supported Team Lotus the two would have been seen as one and the rise of team lotus from scratch to even a midfield car would have given Group Lotus as a manufacturer a lot more credibility in the market than the route they have taken now. Their plan today to re-badge a Renault is synonymous to re-badge a Zenvo as Lotus Esprit in 2014.

[segedunum]

How rich or profitable Tony Fernandes group of comapanies is, is irrelevant because this is not Team AirAsia or Team Fernandes....

Well, yes it is in reality.

The reason why Proton can managed to survive despite selling junks is purely because of Malaysia government support in the domestic market, and the same reason why I say that Malaysia government will support Group Lotus in the F1 venture.

You can't keep investing and propping things up forever. It doesn't matter how much they support them. There has to be a payoff pretty soon from Lotus as a car company first, which is why bankrolling a Formula 1 team can't continue.

[segedunum]

Buying into a existing team is just the very wrong way of doing this. Had they supported Team Lotus the two would have been seen as one and the rise of team lotus from scratch to even a midfield car would have given Group Lotus as a manufacturer a lot more credibility in the market than the route they have taken now.

A strategic partnership between all concerned would have been the most sensible way for everyone using the Lotus name to move forwards. What Group Lotus and Bahar doing is playground "I want to play with my own toys" behaviour which will cost them.

[marcush.]

what the heck are they thinking?
lotus is a name already ..a brand .all this controversy is not doing any good to this heritage apaet from people realising suddenly :
Lotus cars nowadays is more Proton than it is Lotus of the ol days....Is that a good idea to promote?
If anything than Fernandes was starting to build up something new worth building heritage on ..they came back to the original area ..and trying to keep a relation to the original spirit without putting the name at risk.

[CHT]

Buying into a existing team is just the very wrong way of doing this. Had they supported Team Lotus the two would have been seen as one and the rise of team lotus from scratch to even a midfield car would have given Group Lotus as a manufacturer a lot more credibility in the market than the route they have taken now.

A strategic partnership between all concerned would have been the most sensible way for everyone using the Lotus name to move forwards. What Group Lotus and Bahar doing is playground "I want to play with my own toys" behaviour which will cost them.

I see no strategic synergies between Tony and Group Lotus actually. What Tony wants from this partnership is simply to get Proton and the Malaysia government (reason for calling themselves 1Malaysia and getting Fauzy as reserve driver) to fund Team Lotus, while AirAsia and Tony get to build this team without their own money.

Tony is known for its budget hotel and airline, a wannabe to be Asia's Richard Brandson and has zero track record in managing an F1 team. So why would any sensible company continue to fund a team like Team Lotus when they have the opportunity to acquire a controlling stake in a team with championship pedigree?

Furthermore Group Lotus main purpose in F1 is to establish a brand that is good enough to rival Ferrari, hence why would they want a successful budget airline and hotel boss to represent their brands? AirAsia, Tune Hotel and Lotus? It just doesnt make sense from a branding point of view.

[marcush.]

but why would a small sportscarmaker use a mass car producer to design and campaign F1 cars to promote the sportscars they produce completely independant..
It is such an awkward constellation....
Lotus Cars incompetent to produce top notch Racing Cars in need of help from Renault to be able to build a chassis...
I know the engine manufacturers have taken that route already (Mercedes buying Illmor engine design and production facility ...wich was someday Chevy (albeit not the f1 engine designs)...the bridge to gap this almost impossible to explain and it will not help Lotus at all especially when you need to find someone to bankroll all this not sinking millions of dollars into it for no return .(who would buy a lotus because of lotus owning Renault F1?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I think the idea is that in time, should Lotus be more succesful no remnants of Renault would remain.
Much as Mercedes-Benz buyout of Ilmor, it is now pretty much fully fledged Mercedes as with time it has become integrated through management and staff along with equipment.

Renault were looking for a way out and Lotus gives them that. Lotus get a team fully capable of designing a competitive team without having build everything from scratch.
In time and with more investment, Lotus can eventually bear more influence on what goes on. In 5-7 years it will probably be a fully fledged works Lotus outfit.
Where that leaves Fernandes is anyones guess but I dont half get the feeling the guy was hung out to dry by an egoist....

[segedunum]

I see no strategic synergies between Tony and Group Lotus actually.

I always worry when I see people use that silly word. Tony was there first. The Group Lotus racing activities only started after Fernandes had brought the Lotus name back to racing.

Why Group Lotus decided to duplicate effort is something I've not seen a logical response to - other than some unsubstantiated hot air from Bahar.

What Tony wants from this partnership is simply to get Proton and the Malaysia government (reason for calling themselves 1Malaysia and getting Fauzy as reserve driver) to fund Team Lotus, while AirAsia and Tony get to build this team without their own money.

Where do you get this idea from? Neither Proton nor Group Lotus remotely looked like being involved in any racing activities when Fernandes started. It was obviously an egotistical knee-jerk response.

Furthermore Group Lotus main purpose in F1 is to establish a brand that is good enough to rival Ferrari...

I'm afraid this is egotistical crap from Bahar that's appeared out of nowhere as soon as Fernandes started his team.

...hence why would they want a successful budget airline and hotel boss to represent their brands?

I don't understand. These would effectively already be successful and established sponsors. You're making excuses here that doesn't explain why you would duplicate effort and spend money that you haven't got other than "I want to play with my own toys". That's exactly what 'brand synergy' means. All they're doing is hurting the brand right now.

[CHT]

I always worry when I see people use that silly word. Tony was there first. The Group Lotus racing activities only started after Fernandes had brought the Lotus name back to racing.

Why Group Lotus decided to duplicate effort is something I've not seen a logical response to - other than some unsubstantiated hot air from Bahar.

You sort of reminded me of how school kids would fight over toys because they all claim that they saw it first. (Pretty obvious you dont even know what you are talking abot here. Please read below comments)

Where do you get this idea from? Neither Proton nor Group Lotus remotely looked like being involved in any racing activities when Fernandes started. It was obviously an egotistical knee-jerk response.

Unlike Tony who is known for selling budget airline tickets, Group Lotus has been producing 5 stars rating road legal 2 seaters sports cars for over than 10 years. Hence why should it come as a surprise that Group Lotus will be drawn into motor racing eventually.

Dany Bahar officially join Group Lotus as CEO on Sep 2009, which is about the same time Team Lotus was given a boost by the Malaysia government to gain entry into F1 for /2010. If there was no Group Lotus and Proton support from the beginning, Team Lotus would not have gotten their entry into F1. (Lack of financial resources I presume)

I'm afraid this is egotistical crap from Bahar that's appeared out of nowhere as soon as Fernandes started his team.

AFAIK, Litespeed F3 (without the involvement of Tony) was the first to apply Lotus for F1 2010, but their application was rejected when the list of 2010 entry was announced in Jun 09. IIRC, both Tony and Dany appear into the scene around the same time, hence it shouldnt come as a suprise that both Tony and Dany, together with the Malaysia Government and Proton were in the same team that was resposible for getting Lotus back in F1.

I don't understand. These would effectively already be successful and established sponsors. You're making excuses here that doesn't explain why you would duplicate effort and spend money that you haven't got other than "I want to play with my own toys". That's exactly what 'brand synergy' means. All they're doing is hurting the brand right now.

Personally, the most memorable part of Team Lotus marketing effort in 2010 was Richard Brandson serving on AirAsiaX flight wearing a red dress. Or course as a Tony fan boy you will call that a branding success because Tony gets to use Malaysia government and Proton money to promote his newly setup AirAsiaX that flies from London to Malaysia.

[segedunum]

...Group Lotus has been producing 5 stars rating road legal 2 seaters sports cars for over than 10 years. Hence why should it come as a surprise that Group Lotus will be drawn into motor racing eventually.

Lotus is a 2-bit sports car company that is a shadow of its former glories. To try and miraculously create a new 'Ferrari' out of it in the current climate, and fund a Formula 1 team Renault wants to offload completely, is plain nuts. It is what it is.

If there was no Group Lotus and Proton support from the beginning, Team Lotus would not have gotten their entry into F1. (Lack of financial resources I presume)

Proton provided a name under license. That's it. They then got some ideas from somewhere......

Or course as a Tony fan boy...

Rrrright.

[Blackout]

To say Renault wants to leave formula 1 is false. Firstly, Renault wants to spare money. They no longer own the enstone facilities and spend money on them but they still own their people... They stay in F1 and not only as an engine supplier.

Carlos Ghosn:

"Renault will be associated with this team, whatever happens: associated in connection with the supply of engines and chassis, and with the technology around the chassis. Aside from this, there may be financial agreements, marketing agreements to suit our interests. There may be more developments. What I can tell you is that we will be, more and more, technology suppliers to many teams involved in Formula 1."

"Name changes, they are everywhere. What is key is to keep the name Renault."

"The name Renault might appear in a few more teams, because we do not want to give the impression that we are exclusive to one team. We are currently developing our technology with a number of teams."

"We are not in Formula 1 to own a particular team; we are in Formula 1 to promote the Renault name and promote Renault technology. We will do whatever is necessary to do so at a lower cost and with less investment. We are not going to put more resources than necessary into achieving that aim."

Lopez and Bahar:

"we have decided to team up with Genii and Renault"
"this remains Renault’s number one partner team; in terms of all the contractual agreements we have with Renault. These are things that no other Renault-engined team has to such an extent. It remains a team in which Renault as a technical partner is engaged in a bigger way than anywhere else because it keeps its name on the chassis.
Secondly, for all the parties involved – Proton and Renault most importantly – it makes a lot of sense to keep the name just from a future relationship perspective. Thirdly, is indeed the fact that as Lotus is a title sponsor and the chassis remains a Renault, we benefit from still being the same team, which we are. We are not changing the team principal or the engineers or any of that. It is a continuation, which now has the Lotus brand. As far as the second part of your question is concerned, we now have a new agreement with the engine with Renault which is for at least the next three years so that gives you some idea of how things are stabilised on that front.
keeping the Renault name makes a lot of sense from the partnership perspective. At every single level, from F1 to everything else"

[conni]

cht should change his name to PMT

at the meeting this week tony was wearing a pink jumper and someone asked if everyone had to wear pink from now on as a team colour and tony said

NO THIS IS FOR A GAY PORN FILM, IM GOING ROUND TO --- DANNY UP THE ARSE AND I WANT TO LOOK THE PART

personally i can see tony owning lotus cars and making very good cars in the future

conni

[ESPImperium]

cht should change his name to PMT :lol:

at the meeting this week tony was wearing a pink jumper and someone asked if everyone had to wear pink from now on as a team colour and tony said

NO THIS IS FOR A GAY PORN FILM, IM GOING ROUND TO --- DANNY UP THE ARSE AND I WANT TO LOOK THE PART :lol:

personally i can see tony owning lotus cars and making very good cars in the future

conni

I have to aggree with you. I think that in a few years Bahar will seriously F-Up Group Lotus to the point that Proton will just not bail them out, this will lead to Tony Fernandes doing what he did with AirAsia, buy it from the Malasian government for a single dollar bill and then proceed to turn it arround and within a few years proceed to make quality cars and offer a genuine rival to Ferarri. By then i think that Fernandes will then reloacte his entire buisness to the UK (or other country) and then race a true Team Lotus and operate a genuine Lotus Cars from the UK under the Great British flag just to annoy those that didnt support him.

Im not convinced about the whole Group Lotus approach and will not accept anything that comes out of them as nothing more than a polished turd.

[marcush.]

tony comes across as a man with great passion to me and I like that.
the lotus thing looks like a wannabee story..challenge Porsche with what they have ..just laughable ..a fleet of new cars when all they produced in recent years was a bit more than a motorcycle on 4 wheels in recent years...and at very low production numbers...the wakeup call will be dramatic and traumatic.

[donskar]

OK, rigidly on topic:
for 2011 we will have two entities carrying the word "Lotus."

1) One bought it and has a legal/monetary right to use it. Beyond the fact that they paid money for it I see no other reason for them to use it (or not use it).

2) The "other" Lotus will be sponsored by the corporate / manufacturing entity that is named Lotus and which has built thousands of cars bearing that name.

I simply can't see why 2) has been castigated in this thread. They have done nothing in violation of the rules (as far as I can see). They are not claiming to be anyone other than Lotus. By their sponsorship they are helping a good team stay in business. (I think most of us would NOT like to see Renault disappear?)

Are some of you equally incensed at the "BRM" wrist watch? How about the BMW "Cooper"?