Force India VJM04 Mercedes

[MIKEY_!]

Yes actually it is

Since when were barn doors multi element.

The snowplough acts a little like a wing but i am taking generally here as you well know and FI could probably shed a little top speed for more DF anyway.

[raymondu999]

more elements = more df is a gross overgeneralisation of a much more complicated topic; and even then is not completely true.

[MIKEY_!]

Like i said, generally.

Why then did teams use as many elements as possible back in the days when they could.

[raymondu999]

This is interestingly something a lot of F1T members disagree on. Here's an old thread on it: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9609

[beelsebob]

This is interestingly something a lot of F1T members disagree on. Here's an old thread on it: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9609

It's something that is clearly false. If multi element wings always had more downforce, then clearly every team would have a front wing like a mach-293 razor – just jam more elements on, it'll perform better!

Ultimately, aero is very very complex, and the front wing especially so – it's not just generating downforce, it's also sending air to all sorts of places that need it/away from all sorts of areas that generate drag. Generalisations like {multi | single} element front wings are obviously better are moronic.

[raymondu999]

Which is why a lot of F1T members disagree on it, and why I said more elements = more downforce is a gross overgeneralisation.

Will any mods who is seeing this please move our conversation to the thread I linked above. For any FIndia fans who want to talk of the VJM04, very sorry about soiling your thread with talk of multi element wings

[Hemsy]

Why "must there" be more downforce in it?

There "must be" more downforce because if it wasn't an improvement over the existing configuration, they wouldn't be testing it. Also as regards to why they haven't already introduced it is because they practically have a new front end and such a major upgrade would require them to test it and go through all the data before introducing it.

They're testing it to find out IF it has less drag/more downforce. Ever heard of a failed upgrade?

I've heard of failed upgrades but the very fact that they're testing it means it showed an improvement in the wind tunnel. So at least its an improvement on paper. And because of the ban on in-season testing, teams have invested heavily in CFD and simulation techniques meaning that an upgrade is more likely to be successful than a failure. FI managed to make much bigger upgrades like the double diffuser, F-duct and EBD work then why not this?!

[raymondu999]

It could; it might have more downforce. But my point being there's no guarantee; so there's no guarantee that they should already be using it. Ferrari had wind tunnel and CFD problems not so long ago, no? Simulations are simulations, but they're simulations rather than real tests.

[Clausell]

Clausell_F1 Héctor Clausell
#F1 [IMAGEN] Comparación de los dos alerones delanteros diferentes llevados por #FORCEINDIA al GP BÉLGICA

[raymondu999]

Shame we can't see the rest of the wing. FIndia should be quick here

[wesley123]

Like i said, generally.

Why then did teams use as many elements as possible back in the days when they could.

To be able to use higher wing angles without aerodynamic stall happening. More wings doenst mean more downforce, simple as that

[King Six]

Clausell_F1 Héctor Clausell
#F1 [IMAGEN] Comparación de los dos alerones delanteros diferentes llevados por #FORCEINDIA al GP BÉLGICA

They've tested that nose so many times, I can't remember exactly when they started. But I don't think they've ever used it in a race, they always revert back to the double-chin nose

I don't think the wing itself (endplates, flaps) change that much between the versions, it's mainly about the mounting pylons and the nose itself. Dunno if Scarbs has done an article about Force India and these two different nose designs

[ESPImperium]

Force India-Mercedes VJM/04 Chassis History:

VJM/04-01:
NO DATA (Posibly their straightline aero car and the car they did pre season testing at Jerex and Barcelona #1 with)

VJM/04-02
Di Resta: Barcelona Test #2, AUS, MAL, CHI, TUR, ESP, MON, CAN, EUR, GBR, GER, HUN, BEL, ITA
Sutil: Barcelona Test #2
Hulkenberg: Barcelona Test #2, AUS FP1, MAL FP1, ESP FP1, EUR FP1, GER FP1, HUN FP1, ITA FP1

VJM/04-03
NO DATA

VJM/04:
Sutil: AUS, MAL, CHI, TUR, ESP, MON, CAN, EUR, GBR, GER, HUN, BEL, ITA
Hulkenberg: CHI FP1, TUR FP1, CAN FP1, GBR FP1, BEL FP2

So far Di Resta has sat out 7 FP1 or FP2 sessions to Sutils 5 for Hulkenberg to get a drive of the car.

[Francesc]

[ringo]

Isn't this the same as the mclaren unit?