[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[HPD]

Max: 'We have already adjusted some things to the car, but at the beginning we just had too many problems with that. That became clear. Look at the AlphaTauri, with all due respect. If Pierre Gasly is only three tenths behind me, I know enough.

Tanabe: Max has been struggling with the balance of his car since yesterday and he was the best Honda driver in fifth, but very close in lap time to those in front. Pierre and Alex were only three tenths slower than Max, but in such a close contest, it meant they were only 9th and 10th. Tomorrow, Daniil will start right behind them in a race which will be as close as qualifying, so the slightest gap could make the difference. We are looking forward to what can often be an exciting race here in Monza

[gshevlin]

This pretty much sums it all. Verstappen isn't one to mince his words.

Verstappen said that he “tried everything” with the set-up on his car to try and find more pace, but found he was setting similar times regardless of what tweaks were made.

“I tried everything, very low, medium-low, and a little bit more [downforce],” Verstappen said.

“I ended up doing the same lap time all of the time, so it just shows that our car is not good enough at the moment.

“Around here, we know top speed-wise, we are down on power to Mercedes especially, and that’s a given, but that is not the deficit we have to them at the moment.

“It’s not that big, the deficit in power. From our side, we just didn’t have a good balance in the car, but not only that, but we’re also lacking grip.”

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vers ... za/4869167

A pretty good confirmation that the Red Bull car is not quick enough in any configuration at present.
Detail analysis of qualifying times in that previous comment suggests that the underlying issue is that the 2020 car is currently no better than the 2019 car. Since the Mercedes is 0.4 seconds better, that represents a net loss of around 0.5 seconds to Mercedes. Ferrari has become 1.1 seconds slower, hence their tumble down the order, but with Racing Point and McLaren both improving, Red Bull are now struggling to hold on to their previous number 2 status.

[Sieper]

This pretty much sums it all. Verstappen isn't one to mince his words.

Verstappen said that he “tried everything” with the set-up on his car to try and find more pace, but found he was setting similar times regardless of what tweaks were made.

“I tried everything, very low, medium-low, and a little bit more [downforce],” Verstappen said.

“I ended up doing the same lap time all of the time, so it just shows that our car is not good enough at the moment.

“Around here, we know top speed-wise, we are down on power to Mercedes especially, and that’s a given, but that is not the deficit we have to them at the moment.

“It’s not that big, the deficit in power. From our side, we just didn’t have a good balance in the car, but not only that, but we’re also lacking grip.”

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vers ... za/4869167

A pretty good confirmation that the Red Bull car is not quick enough in any configuration at present.

At this track. Especially. They still need to work on that, a lot.

[TNTHead]

This pretty much sums it all. Verstappen isn't one to mince his words.



https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vers ... za/4869167

A pretty good confirmation that the Red Bull car is not quick enough in any configuration at present.

At this track. Especially. They still need to work on that, a lot.

I think these comments of Max combined with the unstable car in ultra low DF setup shows that the floor/diffusor/suspension setup is still not good. May be an inherent flaw which cant be sorted out easy. I fear the for next year. How much aero development is possible for 2021, not much probably.

If Max gets to the podium he has maximised his result again, but now he really has to fight for it with increased risk of crashing out.

[Sieper]

Yes. Again a bottle neck with the whole field storming in. From P5 that is so much more dangerous than from P1. It is what it is. I think on other tracks they will be much closer.

[Datco]

That was painful to watch. Now I don't think Merc did a outstanding job this year anymore. I think RBR did a terrible job. Everybody seems to have closed the gap to merc compared to last year except RBR. I am ignoring Ferrari powered cars here. If it were not for Ferrari's donkey I think RBR would have been would be I big trouble. Ferrari making their situation look better than it really is. I hope they having a good look into where they went wrong.

[Moore77]

Yes. Again a bottle neck with the whole field storming in. From P5 that is so much more dangerous than from P1. It is what it is. I think on other tracks they will be much closer.

It would probably be true, if the problem is simply the balance of the car and that it doesn't work on low downforce tracks. But here, despite having tow from the Mercedes cars (who themselves weren't using tow), they were behind the McLaren of Sainz, who wasn't under any tow either. So if the balance problem continues on tracks where tow is a hindrance than advantage, then theoritically, the deficit would be bigger to Mercedes, but considering RB16 has been a better chassis than that of McLaren, Max might again be in no man's land of being 3rd.

The problem is, even Max can't make a difference if a track doesn't have a lot of challenging corners, which compounds the situation. He adds a couple of tenths over other cars, by simply being excellent through a string of corners, but is helpless here.

[etusch]

I think Mercedes trying to show everybody that this td didn't effected them. We will see what will happen at next races and maybe tomorrow too ( their car is best on the grid, this is another thing )

[McMika98]

That was painful to watch. Now I don't think Merc did a outstanding job this year anymore. I think RBR did a terrible job. Everybody seems to have closed the gap to merc compared to last year except RBR. I am ignoring Ferrari powered cars here. If it were not for Ferrari's donkey I think RBR would have been would be I big trouble. Ferrari making their situation look better than it really is. I hope they having a good look into where they went wrong.

Amen brother. I've been saying this all year and have taken a lot of flack for it.
First the chassis is prolly worse than last year and not strong in any corners.
Tomorrow will be interesting, I have my theory on why Max was fast in race. If he cant get past Perez and Sainz then it will
revealing. I don't expect Redbull to overtake any car since the mode is now fixed and the car has terrible degradation.
Whats really frustating is that despite the size zero package, the car is not aero efficient and has terrible balance.
I think few cars will blow up tomorrow and that might open few opportunities.

[mem]

its not so gloomy after all there are good news , if you can see the problem of this season in 2 halves
one was the mercedes dominance and the other is RB16 flaws , so at least you can cheers that the mercedes huge advantage is over which is a very positive thing , lets talk numbers
Mclaren deficit to mercs in silverstonestone 1 was 1.4 seonds
Mclaren deficit to mercs in silverstonestone 2 was 1.6 seconds
Mclaren deficit to mercs in spain was 1.5 seconds
Mclaren deficit to mercs in belgium was 1.2 seconds (after 21 August - ERS info)
today in Monza it went even down to 8 tenths.

Max advantage over SAT is always a full second today is only 3 tenths it mean he could finish today only 2 tenths shy of Hamilton. (he couldn't due to rb16 flaws in low DF tracks) but i think he could in Mugello.

there is a reason why Red Bull pushed for 'quali mode' ban , even a blind one can notice Mercedes regular pattern during races they always open a gap and maintain it but is it normal is it legal ?
Mercedes to run reliability-focused engine upgrade in Austria
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... JpUzw.html

The FIA suspects some reliability changes requested by teams have arisen because ‘quali modes’ were used to run engines beyond their normal parameters. The requests for reliability changes may therefore be an indirect means of unlocking more performance.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/20/ban ... rand-prix/

Honda also did reliability upgrade going into 2020 but have any one seen any unusual strong performance from them?

another important thing was the ERS info and structures of non high voltage circuits which can very easy get manipulated.

what PU one mode will make to Mercedes is 2 very important things , first is PU damage and second fuel consumption.
if they opted to run the strong mode which they can't use for more than few laps anyway and is very fishy , so no more (unusual) strong performance , have you seen Toto lately hallucinating just yesterday he said Mercedes engineers will work on using the whole race with party mode next year , i wounder where the calm humble Toto gone

the other half is up to RBR to fix it.

[IvailoStefanovBG]

So what do folks say now. Car isnt that great and neither is the engine. Pole was so close wasnt it guys.

I think the main problem is the car. It's quite visible after FP1....They need alot more wing to keep the car on the track...Anyway Mercs are light yeras ahead...engine and chassis wise...

are you saying they could put a smaller rear wing ?
i mean during qualifying to gain time but they feared a crash for unbalance ?

Exactly. Ver crashed in FP1 so they put more DF and loose straight line speed. Same problem as before...RB16 sucks...

[Marti_EF3]

I think Monza maybe is masking a bit the Q Mode ban due the particular layout of the circuit. We will know much more at Mugello, where it will be a new track for everyone.

[KelsO]

Red Bull can talk about the engine as much as he wants, but the main problem is the chassis. Look how mobile the technical headquarters is in Mercedes, they invite all the best or just the strongest engineers if they become free, despite the fact that their technical headquarters looked full. This year they made three big steps at once in the development of the car.
1. Fixed problem with engine overheating
2. New rear suspension
3. DAS system
And that's not counting all the small standard improvements that the team makes for each season.
I think Red Bull needs to look for strong engineers, I think it is a big omission that they missed James Key. He may not be a genius, but if he could come up with ideas that would make the car a couple of tenths faster - he is worth it to be transferred to Red Bull.

[Sieper]

Yes. Again a bottle neck with the whole field storming in. From P5 that is so much more dangerous than from P1. It is what it is. I think on other tracks they will be much closer.

It would probably be true, if the problem is simply the balance of the car and that it doesn't work on low downforce tracks. But here, despite having tow from the Mercedes cars (who themselves weren't using tow), they were behind the McLaren of Sainz, who wasn't under any tow either. So if the balance problem continues on tracks where tow is a hindrance than advantage, then theoritically, the deficit would be bigger to Mercedes, but considering RB16 has been a better chassis than that of McLaren, Max might again be in no man's land of being 3rd.

The problem is, even Max can't make a difference if a track doesn't have a lot of challenging corners, which compounds the situation. He adds a couple of tenths over other cars, by simply being excellent through a string of corners, but is helpless here.

Yes, a little bit. He said as much, not bragging or anything, but indeed along those lines, only so much you can do here. I am surprised it is Mclaren challenging here. I thought it would be renault themselves.

[etusch]

Yes. Again a bottle neck with the whole field storming in. From P5 that is so much more dangerous than from P1. It is what it is. I think on other tracks they will be much closer.

It would probably be true, if the problem is simply the balance of the car and that it doesn't work on low downforce tracks. But here, despite having tow from the Mercedes cars (who themselves weren't using tow), they were behind the McLaren of Sainz, who wasn't under any tow either. So if the balance problem continues on tracks where tow is a hindrance than advantage, then theoritically, the deficit would be bigger to Mercedes, but considering RB16 has been a better chassis than that of McLaren, Max might again be in no man's land of being 3rd.

The problem is, even Max can't make a difference if a track doesn't have a lot of challenging corners, which compounds the situation. He adds a couple of tenths over other cars, by simply being excellent through a string of corners, but is helpless here.

Yes, a little bit. He said as much, not bragging or anything, but indeed along those lines, only so much you can do here. I am surprised it is Mclaren challenging here. I thought it would be renault themselves.

This long straights may a little bit confuse people. Here at monza mclaren were good everytime. Mclaren's suspensions were working very well with curbs of monza. Then they shaved curbs to end of this favour for mclaren. Still this track's layout may be good for some teams.