This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
I am a fan of Red Bull and Horner and want him to continue as CEO and TP. But no matter how you try and reason with it , this Perez deal is indefensible.
His first year was 2021. And it happened that year also. He crashed on the staging lap at Spa.
It shows decline in the direction of Red Bull. They made no secret that they tried to get Lando Norris. Which really undoes a lot of arguments as to why they kept Perez. Sure. Lando and Max are friends. But Lando would be stealing some poles and wins from Max. Not many but some. And Red Bull were fine with this. The only reason it didn't happen is bc Lando said no.
If Lando was fine then Hulk, Bottas or Sainz should have been fine too.
Talking about Lando was a fools erand by Marko maybe. That did not come from Horner. That's probably Marko's ground work to test the market and tick his check box to say he is scouting for drivers. There were never serious interest about Lando. They would have offered him more and more money to break the ice. The last time redbull looked for equality, Riciardo and Vettel clashed and Max with Riciardo. They aren't going to repeat that mistake. It's not their style. That's more McLaren and Mercedes and Alpine style.
I am a fan of Red Bull and Horner and want him to continue as CEO and TP. But no matter how you try and reason with it , this Perez deal is indefensible.
His first year was 2021. And it happened that year also. He crashed on the staging lap at Spa.
It shows decline in the direction of Red Bull. They made no secret that they tried to get Lando Norris. Which really undoes a lot of arguments as to why they kept Perez. Sure. Lando and Max are friends. But Lando would be stealing some poles and wins from Max. Not many but some. And Red Bull were fine with this. The only reason it didn't happen is bc Lando said no.
If Lando was fine then Hulk, Bottas or Sainz should have been fine too.
Talking about Lando was a fools erand by Marko maybe. That did not come from Horner. That's probably Marko's ground work to test the market and tick his check box to say he is scouting for drivers. There were never serious interest about Lando. They would have offered him more and more money to break the ice. The last time redbull looked for equality, Riciardo and Vettel clashed and Max with Riciardo. They aren't going to repeat that mistake. It's not their style. That's more McLaren and Mercedes and Alpine style.
Maybe the Lando stuff wasn't that serious. But they did openly say it which isn't typical of them.
They had clashing drivers before. But a Hulkenberg, a Bottas or even Sainz is not the same thing as Riccardo vs Vettel or Max and Riccardo.
Sainz and Bottas proved themselves as reliable # 2 drivers on big teams. And Hulk is a gentleman and friend of Max. Sainz and Leclerc were fine for years. Would the politics of these drivers be perfect ? No. But the name of the game is still to win. The politics between Perez and Max is far from trouble free. They had some pretty big falling outs. Max rejected team orders for Perez for goodness sake. Perez saying "we need to talk" on the radio after he was team ordered.
In my opinion, Perez didn't deserve a contract extension, too many errors and poor performances with a car capable of easy wins; I think that this will hamper Red Bull in the WCC, I consider this year's WCC already lost, let alone next year's one, but I imagine that they did their calculations and after all Perez is the best option for them ?
anyway, I am a Max fan, so not at all interested in the WCC, my only disappointment is that I would have liked to see how Max could perform with a better driver alongside
on another note, I find a bit of relief that everyone is worried about WCC, since actually I fear that sooner than later we will start to worry seriously about the WDC.
It's a whatever at this point as far as I'm concerned, Horner made his choice. Sainz would've been more interesting and deserving but it doesn't fundamentally change the outlook of the team. Max is the one driving the WDC challenge regardless, and I think Perez is good enough to keep the WCC in reach when Verstappen is scoring like he is. I never felt like the WCC was that important anyways, especially for a team like RB that doesn't sell cars. 2021 was the litmus test for that, I doubt Merc felt like winners and RB certainly didn't feel like losers.
Cs98 wrote:It's a whatever at this point as far as I'm concerned, Horner made his choice. Sainz would've been more interesting and deserving but it doesn't fundamentally change the outlook of the team. Max is the one driving the WDC challenge regardless, and I think Perez is good enough to keep the WCC in reach when Verstappen is scoring like he is. I never felt like the WCC was that important anyways, especially for a team like RB that doesn't sell cars. 2021 was the litmus test for that, I doubt Merc felt like winners even though they technically were.
This is the point, Red Bull doesn't want strongest pairing and WCC. They want money. Disgusting.
Cs98 wrote:It's a whatever at this point as far as I'm concerned, Horner made his choice. Sainz would've been more interesting and deserving but it doesn't fundamentally change the outlook of the team. Max is the one driving the WDC challenge regardless, and I think Perez is good enough to keep the WCC in reach when Verstappen is scoring like he is. I never felt like the WCC was that important anyways, especially for a team like RB that doesn't sell cars. 2021 was the litmus test for that, I doubt Merc felt like winners even though they technically were.
This is the point, Red Bull doesn't want strongest pairing and WCC. They want money. Disgusting.
Cs98 wrote:It's a whatever at this point as far as I'm concerned, Horner made his choice. Sainz would've been more interesting and deserving but it doesn't fundamentally change the outlook of the team. Max is the one driving the WDC challenge regardless, and I think Perez is good enough to keep the WCC in reach when Verstappen is scoring like he is. I never felt like the WCC was that important anyways, especially for a team like RB that doesn't sell cars. 2021 was the litmus test for that, I doubt Merc felt like winners even though they technically were.
This is the point, Red Bull doesn't want strongest pairing and WCC. They want money. Disgusting.
Says who?
I am saying. Perez brings money and sells merchandise to Mexico like El Chapo.
This is the point, Red Bull doesn't want strongest pairing and WCC. They want money. Disgusting.
Says who?
I am saying. Perez brings money and sells merchandise to Mexico like El Chapo.
Very much a secondary consideration for a team that is well funded already. I've never read anything that would suggest Perez got the job or kept it because of money.
I am saying. Perez brings money and sells merchandise to Mexico like El Chapo.
Very much a secondary consideration for a team that is well funded already. I've never read anything that would suggest Perez got the job or kept it because of money.
Not after money? We will see that with Ricciardo when he is also going to have a contract extension because of PR, although he is getting smashed by Tsunoda. At the same time Lawson is just hanging around.
I am saying. Perez brings money and sells merchandise to Mexico like El Chapo.
Very much a secondary consideration for a team that is well funded already. I've never read anything that would suggest Perez got the job or kept it because of money.
Not after money? We will see that with Ricciardo when he is also going to have a contract extension because of PR, although he is getting smashed by Tsunoda. At the same time Lawson is just hanging around.
That is a different team. Different budget, different priorities. RBR is a winning team that wants to keep winning, that will always be the first priority. Also, I think you severely overestimate Perez' backing and brand value. Replacing him with Sainz wouldn't hurt the bottom line much if at all.
Cs98 wrote:
Very much a secondary consideration for a team that is well funded already. I've never read anything that would suggest Perez got the job or kept it because of money.
Not after money? We will see that with Ricciardo when he is also going to have a contract extension because of PR, although he is getting smashed by Tsunoda. At the same time Lawson is just hanging around.
That is a different team. Different budget, different priorities. RBR is a winning team that wants to keep winning, that will always be the first priority. Also, I think you severely overestimate Perez' backing and brand value. Replacing him with Sainz wouldn't hurt the bottom line much if at all.
At the moment they have the best car and they are winning, Verstappen is P1 and Perez P5. What about if the car won't be the best? Good luck for WCC with Perez...
RB and RBR are different teams but Horner and Marko are the ones who decides who gets the seats. So money and PR is involved in RB too.
Not after money? We will see that with Ricciardo when he is also going to have a contract extension because of PR, although he is getting smashed by Tsunoda. At the same time Lawson is just hanging around.
That is a different team. Different budget, different priorities. RBR is a winning team that wants to keep winning, that will always be the first priority. Also, I think you severely overestimate Perez' backing and brand value. Replacing him with Sainz wouldn't hurt the bottom line much if at all.
At the moment they have the best car and they are winning, Verstappen is P1 and Perez P5. What about if the car won't be the best? Good luck for WCC with Perez...
RB and RBR are different teams but Horner and Marko are the ones who decides who gets the seats. So money and PR is involved in RB too.
I don't think money is the primary driver to re-signing Perez but am sure it has a role.
I think RBR have always had a favored driver more than most teams. I think they want someone who they know will accept playing 2nd fiddle to Max while he is there. Perez I think knows it as I think Riccardo knew if he was any chance to return to RBR before this.
I am sure they could find someone else if they had to but think they are happy mostly with how things are.If Perez didn't being the $ would they have him probably not but equally if he was as bad as some try and make out too they would quickly find someone else.
Cs98 wrote:
That is a different team. Different budget, different priorities. RBR is a winning team that wants to keep winning, that will always be the first priority. Also, I think you severely overestimate Perez' backing and brand value. Replacing him with Sainz wouldn't hurt the bottom line much if at all.
At the moment they have the best car and they are winning, Verstappen is P1 and Perez P5. What about if the car won't be the best? Good luck for WCC with Perez...
RB and RBR are different teams but Horner and Marko are the ones who decides who gets the seats. So money and PR is involved in RB too.
I don't think money is the primary driver to re-signing Perez but am sure it has a role.
I think RBR have always had a favored driver more than most teams. I think they want someone who they know will accept playing 2nd fiddle to Max while he is there. Perez I think knows it as I think Riccardo knew if he was any chance to return to RBR before this.
I am sure they could find someone else if they had to but think they are happy mostly with how things are.If Perez didn't being the $ would they have him probably not but equally if he was as bad as some try and make out too they would quickly find someone else.
With the superior Red Bull Ver-Per pairing, everything is perfect. Max has his space and Perez doing the Bottas/Barrichello things. The thing is, Red Bull isn't superior anymore and then the problems are going to start with Perez, and they have locked him in for over 2.5 years. I'm pretty sure they are going to cry about Perez's long deal eventually. Not that they have had a chance to fire him and hire someone else. Now, they gave Pérez two years in the middle of struggling. Thanks to Horner, who took charge from Marko.
