2025 McLaren F1 Team

[AR3-GP]

The RB19 and the SF24 had good tire management but they had tradeoffs. They lacked pace in qualifying trim because the car was slow to put energy into the tires (which was good for the race)

The MCL-39 seems very different. They are always very fast in qualifying and never suffer from cold tires. It is like a thermostat system where they put energy into the tires very quickly, but the heat source appears to "shut-off" once the tire reaches optimum temperature.

I feel like this is a little bit disingenuous. SF24 had an inherent qualifying weakness, while being plagued with development problems throughout most of the season. Why is it even being compared to RB19 in any way? The RB19 had 14 poles. MCL39 has gone 4/6 at the moment and their biggest quali gap was Australia, the rest have been super close. In terms of ratio from the races we have seen so far, the MCL39 is not *very* different compared to the RB19, qualifying-wise. Racepace-wise it’s not even close, the RB19 made the rest of the grid look completely hopeless.

From comments like these, you get the impression that some people just look at the final standings and completely ignore the gaps.
Or maybe people forgot how dominant RB19 was. It’s literally the most dominant car of the sport, statistically.

I don’t know what you are referring to. I was talking about car characteristics, not outright performance. Both of the RB19 and the late season SF24 had incredible tire management. It was even present earlier in the year for the SF24 (Japan) which was before they put on the bad floor in Barcelona (which they recovered in Monza where Leclerc won on a…1 stop strategy) . Ferrari always had cold tires on their qualifying laps. That’s the “reason” that they were slow in qualifying. It was a similar situation with the RB19. Drivers always complained about it.

[Emag]

The RB19 and the SF24 had good tire management but they had tradeoffs. They lacked pace in qualifying trim because the car was slow to put energy into the tires (which was good for the race)

The MCL-39 seems very different. They are always very fast in qualifying and never suffer from cold tires. It is like a thermostat system where they put energy into the tires very quickly, but the heat source appears to "shut-off" once the tire reaches optimum temperature.

I feel like this is a little bit disingenuous. SF24 had an inherent qualifying weakness, while being plagued with development problems throughout most of the season. Why is it even being compared to RB19 in any way? The RB19 had 14 poles. MCL39 has gone 4/6 at the moment and their biggest quali gap was Australia, the rest have been super close. In terms of ratio from the races we have seen so far, the MCL39 is not *very* different compared to the RB19, qualifying-wise. Racepace-wise it’s not even close, the RB19 made the rest of the grid look completely hopeless.

From comments like these, you get the impression that some people just look at the final standings and completely ignore the gaps.
Or maybe people forgot how dominant RB19 was. It’s literally the most dominant car of the sport, statistically.

I don’t know what you are referring to. I was talking about car characteristics, not outright performance. Both of the RB19 and the late season SF24 had incredible tire management. It was even present earlier in the year for the SF24 (Japan) which was before they put on the bad floor in Barcelona (which they recovered in Monza where Leclerc won on a…1 stop strategy) . Ferrari always had cold tires on their qualifying laps. That’s the “reason” that they were slow in qualifying. It was a similar situation with the RB19. Drivers always complained about it.

The SF24 was a car that was somewhat on the “extreme” of tire temp balance. Issues that were exaggerated by aero issues that they spent most of 2024 trying to get on top off. That’s why it is not a valid comparison point against cars which were/are the benchmark of their respective fields.

And while the RB19 had a deliberate trade off for better race pace when it comes to difficulty in warming tires up in colder conditions (admitted by Newey himself), you don’t know that the same doesn’t apply to the MCL39. Nobody knows and nobody from McLaren has admitted anything in terms of strength or weakness from that perspective.

We know they’re exceptionally good (some might say too good) in managing tire temp on hotter conditions, but you do not know they’re not facing difficulties in warming tires up on cooler conditions.

Actually, by empirical evidence, you could make a claim for the opposite of what you’re saying, as their car loses a lot of pace against the competition when temps get lower.

[Darth-Piekus]

Are we now comparing this Mclaren with the Red Bull of 2023 which was the most dominant car in history to the point that Perez an average driver came second easily?

[AR3-GP]

I feel like this is a little bit disingenuous. SF24 had an inherent qualifying weakness, while being plagued with development problems throughout most of the season. Why is it even being compared to RB19 in any way? The RB19 had 14 poles. MCL39 has gone 4/6 at the moment and their biggest quali gap was Australia, the rest have been super close. In terms of ratio from the races we have seen so far, the MCL39 is not *very* different compared to the RB19, qualifying-wise. Racepace-wise it’s not even close, the RB19 made the rest of the grid look completely hopeless.

From comments like these, you get the impression that some people just look at the final standings and completely ignore the gaps.
Or maybe people forgot how dominant RB19 was. It’s literally the most dominant car of the sport, statistically.

I don’t know what you are referring to. I was talking about car characteristics, not outright performance. Both of the RB19 and the late season SF24 had incredible tire management. It was even present earlier in the year for the SF24 (Japan) which was before they put on the bad floor in Barcelona (which they recovered in Monza where Leclerc won on a…1 stop strategy) . Ferrari always had cold tires on their qualifying laps. That’s the “reason” that they were slow in qualifying. It was a similar situation with the RB19. Drivers always complained about it.

The SF24 was a car that was somewhat on the “extreme” of tire temp balance. Issues that were exaggerated by aero issues that they spent most of 2024 trying to get on top off. That’s why it is not a valid comparison point against cars which were/are the benchmark of their respective fields.

And while the RB19 had a deliberate trade off for better race pace when it comes to difficulty in warming tires up in colder conditions (admitted by Newey himself), you don’t know that the same doesn’t apply to the MCL39. Nobody knows and nobody from McLaren has admitted anything in terms of strength or weakness from that perspective.

We know they’re exceptionally good (some might say too good) in managing tire temp on hotter conditions, but you do not know they’re not facing difficulties in warming tires up on cooler conditions.

Actually, by empirical evidence, you could make a claim for the opposite of what you’re saying, as their car loses a lot of pace against the competition when temps get lower.

I don't understand your arguments against the SF24. It was a car with great tire management with a qualifying penalty due to the way they achieved it. The same characteristic as the RB19. Simple point. There's nothing to dispute.

It's not the Mclaren that loses pace when the temps get lower. It's the others that gain pace that they have lost when the temp goes higher and their tires overheat and fall out of the window. This is perfectly demonstrated in Saudi Arabia where Mclaren didn't gain anything between FP3 and qualifying but the others did. You can't regain what you haven't lost.