Ferrari F2012

[hardingfv32]

1) A new chassis design is not required to fix an aero issue.

2) These problems with the tunnel sound like a lack of budget. Could Ferrari be trying to get by on the cheap? Is Fiat asking for more profit from the Ferrari division?

Brian

[Cybercorreio]

Ferrari was already in such a similar misery of results some years ago.
Then it took a "Magic Team"with Schumi & CO. to turn things around.

Mercedes also got a "Big Team"to turn things around.
I think that Ferrari should sort out first why they keep moving (inside and outside the track) slower than the others.
Since I do not have the background of some of the people on this forum , I would like to ask your opinion if the main issue is on the Aerodynamik department? (what is still missing correlation between simulation and real life) , is management or both?

thanks in advance for your opinion.

[amouzouris]

...
You can forget a new chassis. It is against the RRA and the other team could protest it at the FiA if Ferrari designed a B-version of the 2012. I doubt that they would get an exceptional clearance for a B-chassis if they even ask for it.
...

I very much disagree, the FIA has nothing to do with the RRA, while Ferrari is no part of FOTA anymore, besides, Montezuma is used to get what he wants and I'm certain that he will not spend every second weekend this year looking at that abomination.

i agree with you expensive! the RRA was nothing more than a "gentlemen's agreement"....i actually laughed at it the first time o read about it...red bull last year exceeded the RRA and nothing happened...

[Pierce89]

I'm sure I'll get plenty of disagreement, but, this Alonso quote makes me feel slightly better: "I had a KERS problem on my only run in Q3, but I don't think it cost me any places, but it would definitely have made the gap to pole look more realistic," said Alonso afterwards. "It was a good qualifying, because I think we got everything we could out of the car.

"At the moment, this car has many problems, but as a result, it also has a big margin for improvement," he added, finding the silver lining in the gloomy clouds that have been gathering over Maranello in recent weeks. Alonso also denied rumours that the team were set to write-off the F2012 and introduce a substantially new car for the European leg of the season.

"A new car in Barcelona? No, there's no truth in that," he stated flatly. "Clearly we are pushing a lot on car development, which is as it should be, but in a consistent fashion with no revolutionary changes."

[amouzouris]

I'm sure I'll get plenty of disagreement, but, this Alonso quote makes me feel slightly better: "I had a KERS problem on my only run in Q3, but I don't think it cost me any places, but it would definitely have made the gap to pole look more realistic," said Alonso afterwards. "It was a good qualifying, because I think we got everything we could out of the car.

"At the moment, this car has many problems, but as a result, it also has a big margin for improvement," he added, finding the silver lining in the gloomy clouds that have been gathering over Maranello in recent weeks. Alonso also denied rumours that the team were set to write-off the F2012 and introduce a substantially new car for the European leg of the season.

"A new car in Barcelona? No, there's no truth in that," he stated flatly. "Clearly we are pushing a lot on car development, which is as it should be, but in a consistent fashion with no revolutionary changes."

I definitely agree with u..it makes me feel slightly better too!

[hollus]

Hi Cybercorreio, velcome to the forum.

...I would like to ask your opinion if the main issue is on the Aerodynamik department? (what is still missing correlation between simulation and real life) , is management or both?

thanks in advance for your opinion.

Never, never write something like that in F1techicalopinionchitchatyingyang.com
Read the last 160 pages of this thread and you'll understand why.
There is also team threads parallel to the car threads so that the car threads can be used to discuss the car, even if no one joining recently could ever guess that.

And to make the post legit, an observation about something physical in the car. The way the exhausts bend back in towards the end of the Acer ducts after almost reaching its external edge is at the same time enthralling the internal flow, blocking the very same internal flow, and creating a weird internal lateral diffusor that calcels itself out. At the same time the Acer duct unnecessarily increases the effective cross section of the car. Just fixing that (Barca) will massively reduce drag and increase top speed. As X pointed out, there might be to the tune of 0.5 seconds just in that...

[Raptor22]

Seems like this year, its the rumours that's driving the Ferrari, not their car.

If that's the case, we need to quickly improve the quality of the rumors.

Hot off the presses!! Massa out, Patrick Dempsey(Grey's Anatomy, Grand Am GT)in!!!

sauce.[/quote]
tabasco

[xpensive]

...
Hot off the presses!! Massa out, Patrick Dempsey(Grey's Anatomy, Grand Am GT)in!!!

sauce.

tabasco

Harry Potter

[FakeAlonso]

I think this picture explains the situation at Ferrari.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Here is the quote from Brundle:

I have been poking around talking to a couple of mates of mine at Ferrari and saying "Is it this pull rod front suspension? is the aerodynamics? what is it?" and he said "When did you ever hear of a front suspension that slowed the car down that much?" It is about the aerodynamics, they can't get good correlation between the windtunnel and the digital work and the racetrack.

He was then asked a question about whether Ferrari would change the suspension to resolve some of their issues, and he replied: "I can't believe it's the fix. I mean the kinematics of how they've set the suspension up they're not going to have miscalculated that; it's about downforce".

People are entitled to their opinion, mine is as many, the front suspension isn't the problem. Time will tell.

[xpensive]

...
We have to believe what the whole team is saying. And if all are saying that the front pull rod is not causing any problem, then that should be true. The inherent issue for the Ferrari in the past few years has been the lack of downforce and it's the same this year also, which they have already admitted.
...

My quarter of a century worth of xperience with engineers has taught me that as a general rule, they find it easier to be critical to their own design when they have something or someone to share the blame with, like a demented draftsman or a faulty calibrated windtunnel, than admitting that an innovative design they have so proudly championed, like a novel mousetrap or a funny looking front suspension, is crap.

What I'm trying to say with the above, is that it takes courage to admit that your celebrated novelty turned out to be a dog,
it's so much easier to "agree" that some of your aerodynamic measurements or xhaust assumptions were proven wrong.

Indeed X2, time will tell.

[marcush.]

x 1 is nailing it. Taking the blame for things that turn out worse than anticipated is not the engineers main strength.I hope they made a proper risk analysis before venturing in to something that looks as odd as the front suspension of the f2012.
I still don´t understand but then i did never understand the huge downward angling of wishbones we saw in recent years,and also the shallow angles between wishbones and pushrods are a mystery to me as well.
you would expect to need lots of material=weight to get these things as stiff as needed to make the suspension work...but obviously Ferrari won with shitty rotary dampers jjust a few years ago so the bottom line is:it´s aero and more aero and as long as you can control car attitude to stabilize the aeroplatform -keeping it close to the preferred attitude at all times you are in the ballpark....

[radosav]

Cfd ferrari f2012 http://vimeo.com/39096659

[ringo]

Kinmematics are straight forward. Suspension is probably the easiest thing to evaluate on the car, as the mathematics describing it is quite defined.

Aero is a different kettle of fish, can't see it, not as easily modeled and not as easily evaluated.
Iwould believe aero is the real problem, especially round the back of the car and the side pod flanks.

[hollus]

The CFD video is nice, but with non-rotating wheels, no flow through the sidepods (it seems, might be wrong) and no exhaust flow, to be taken with a grain of salt.