[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[Pany]

You talk about peak power. In this formula, what counts is average power for 6 races in a row, in order to compete for titles. Nobody can match or be near to mercedes, in terms of power coupled with reliability and efficiency.

It's blindingly obvious the engine is not an issue.
Let's put it this way - if RB were to fix their chassis they would be all over Mercedes every weekend.
If Honda were to bridge the little gap to the Merc PU but RB fail to fix the car they would still get comprehensively beaten every race.

There's little benefit in in pushing the engine for an extra tenth and risking more DNFs when the car losses several tenths in a few corners alone..

What kind of chassis issues do you think that could remove a second difference to Mercedes? Generally, teams make gains of around a second over a full season in the stable regulations. In the past, Red Bull has demonstrated that, they can offset engine power disadvantage by having a better chassis. Given that, Mercedes has built a super chassis, even if Red Bull sorts out their problems, they would still be short on power. That one second gap that Mercedes has, is not just all chassis. While Honda is a good power unit, it's definitely nowhere close to Mercedes. Last year, Mercedes was struggling with reliability issues and ran their PU in more conservative mode, which gave an illusion that, Honda is on par with Mercedes. Even with this technical directive, they are ahead. To say, if Red Bull fixes chassis issues, it will be all over Mercedes, is an utter overstatement.

All numbers reported in the media put Honda 20-30 hp behind Mercedes which should be around 0.3s loss per lap. This is roughly the target FIA had set for engine convergence. It follows that the rest of the gap, 6 tenths or so is down to the chassis.

I am well aware of the large uncertainty in these numbers but it is all I have.

TD or not, that engine gap is here to stay this season. If they can close the chassis gap down is it inconcievable that Verstappen could consistently beat one of the Mercs (which he already has done to some extent this season) ?.

I didn't imply they can beat both cars, my fault if it came across that way.

[mem]

new face

[epo]

Maybe they can learn a few lessons from AT. They have the data available with Honda too. They need to sort out the issues, or next year will be painful as hell if the midfield keep closing the gap. And Mercedes will still keep updating the car... Hope it's like last season when they sorted out the car more or less mid season. And they started to fight for pole and victory. If that's the case, then that momentum will transfer to 2021 as the cars will be almost the same. But time is running out fast

Learn what? And ofc they check AT.
Also a reminder that if not for the safety cars, AT would just have finished behind RB or close of equal, the AT was not faster the whole weekend. Some people get so short sighted after one race and forget about all the other races.

[PlatinumZealot]

here we go
GASLY ON A RED BULL RETURN: ‘I THINK I’M READY’
“Obviously I guess the strong results should be rewarded with something but we’ll see what happens.

Asked in the wake of his shock Monza victory – on a day when Albon finished 15th with a damaged car – whether he was ready to handle a Red Bull seat again and whether he felt that would be a good move for 2021, Gasly made clear he felt he had proved his worth.

“I think I’m ready, but it’s not up to me to make that call,” said Gasly of the prospect of a Red Bull return.

“The only thing I’ve done since they moved me back to Toro Rosso is to just focus on myself and just show what I can do when I get the right tools in my hand.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/gasly-on ... -im-ready/
he is asking to ride the man killer beast again , ballsy but ...

Yeah. I say he stays at AT for till the year is out at minimum. He deserves the RBR seat, if not 2021, it MUST be 2021 at the latest. Whatever Dr. Marko does in-between is up to his discretion.

[Marti_EF3]

Maybe they can learn a few lessons from AT. They have the data available with Honda too. They need to sort out the issues, or next year will be painful as hell if the midfield keep closing the gap. And Mercedes will still keep updating the car... Hope it's like last season when they sorted out the car more or less mid season. And they started to fight for pole and victory. If that's the case, then that momentum will transfer to 2021 as the cars will be almost the same. But time is running out fast

Learn what? And ofc they check AT.
Also a reminder that if not for the safety cars, AT would just have finished behind RB or close of equal, the AT was not faster the whole weekend. Some people get so short sighted after one race and forget about all the other races.

They've working with Honda one year more, so I think they have good and well integrated cooling solutions and so on. You can't ignore them just because they are a small team

[epo]

Maybe they can learn a few lessons from AT. They have the data available with Honda too. They need to sort out the issues, or next year will be painful as hell if the midfield keep closing the gap. And Mercedes will still keep updating the car... Hope it's like last season when they sorted out the car more or less mid season. And they started to fight for pole and victory. If that's the case, then that momentum will transfer to 2021 as the cars will be almost the same. But time is running out fast

Learn what? And ofc they check AT.
Also a reminder that if not for the safety cars, AT would just have finished behind RB or close of equal, the AT was not faster the whole weekend. Some people get so short sighted after one race and forget about all the other races.

They've working with Honda one year more, so I think they have good and well integrated cooling solutions and so on. You can't ignore them just because they are a small team

Nobody is saying that, they are part of the RB organisation and especially when the budget cap is there people will shift and they will for sure share more and more.

[SmallSoldier]

Great victory for Gasly .i still think if Redbull want progress as a team they need to take input from both drivers rather believe Max is be and end all .their high rake is draggy and without complex frontwing is unstable and dont produce near same level of downforce as merc

They is a reason why other teams ditch high rake.Rbr has hit a wall they are slower than last year car in most tracks .the best part of that package is the powerunit i reiterate. Marko and company wanted to burn party modes that was an asinine decision it set them back and it stem from redbull sence of superiorty and believe that pu is holding them back, At victory should be a wakeup call

Who is ditching the high rake? Renault is still running a very high raked car (maybe even higher than Red Bull?) and high speed low downforce tracks are where they showed more strength... Mclaren also runs a high rake concept and it doesn’t seem to suffer from it.

I don’t think the high rake concept is Red Bull’s problem with the car.


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[Sieper]

Me neither. I think integrating the cape (and possibly the high rear suspension) is more difficult than expected.

[godlameroso]

new face
https://www.pitpass.com/images/circuits ... ugello.gif

2nd DRS zone? Where? After turn 6? .

By the way, this track is a bona-fide tire assassin. It is so incredibly easy to overheat the left side tires. From turn 6 to turn 10 it is pure agony. By turn 12 the tires are screaming in pain, luckily the final chicane is easy flat and the right side tires don't get devastated.

Also due to the nature of the track, it is very physically abrasive to the rears since you're always straddling the line between sliding and gripping.

Some teams will be caught out by how severe the tire wear will be.

[Big Tea]

Great victory for Gasly .i still think if Redbull want progress as a team they need to take input from both drivers rather believe Max is be and end all .their high rake is draggy and without complex frontwing is unstable and dont produce near same level of downforce as merc

They is a reason why other teams ditch high rake.Rbr has hit a wall they are slower than last year car in most tracks .the best part of that package is the powerunit i reiterate. Marko and company wanted to burn party modes that was an asinine decision it set them back and it stem from redbull sence of superiorty and believe that pu is holding them back, At victory should be a wakeup call

Who is ditching the high rake? Renault is still running a very high raked car (maybe even higher than Red Bull?) and high speed low downforce tracks are where they showed more strength... Mclaren also runs a high rake concept and it doesn’t seem to suffer from it.

I don’t think the high rake concept is Red Bull’s problem with the car.


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It is arguably still the second fastest car

[JordanMugen]

What kind of chassis issues do you think that could remove a second difference to Mercedes?

Chassis issues = handling problems of course.

The RB20 has made little to no improvement over the RB19 at most circuits. This is, clearly, not what Red Bull intended or expected. If the RB20 was on average 0.5 sec/lap faster than the RB19 (or 1.0 sec/lap faster than 2019 car like the Alpha Tauri) then Red Bull would be much more competitive.

Yes, strapping a Mercedes in would instantly make the RB20 a bit faster (ignoring integration issues) but Mercedes simply refuse to supply Red Bull so that is not an option. Between Renault and Honda, the units actually available to Red Bull, there doesn't seem to be much advantage one way or the other, certainly not enough difference to justify having to pay for the Renault units...

[Datco]

Rbr need to fix this car fast. It' can only now be regarded as mid field. Yes it can be fast but only in the hands of Max. It's very peaky. And let's face it, Max can get the most of any car.

[SmallSoldier]

Great victory for Gasly .i still think if Redbull want progress as a team they need to take input from both drivers rather believe Max is be and end all .their high rake is draggy and without complex frontwing is unstable and dont produce near same level of downforce as merc

They is a reason why other teams ditch high rake.Rbr has hit a wall they are slower than last year car in most tracks .the best part of that package is the powerunit i reiterate. Marko and company wanted to burn party modes that was an asinine decision it set them back and it stem from redbull sence of superiorty and believe that pu is holding them back, At victory should be a wakeup call

Who is ditching the high rake? Renault is still running a very high raked car (maybe even higher than Red Bull?) and high speed low downforce tracks are where they showed more strength... Mclaren also runs a high rake concept and it doesn’t seem to suffer from it.

I don’t think the high rake concept is Red Bull’s problem with the car.


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It is arguably still the second fastest car

Yes, it still the second fastest car overall... It has lost some of the performance gap it had to the rest of the field and that will make it struggle on tracks that don’t suit their strengths (like Monza) and because the gap to the midfield is closer, any mistakes in setup could place them behind another car that isn’t a Mercedes (when in the past, even with mistakes, they still were comfortably ahead).

But, the situation at Monza will probably be a one off and they will be behind Mercedes with at least one car in the following races.


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[JordanMugen]

It is arguably still the second fastest car

That's true!

Yet Albon seems to struggle with it, and a repromoted Gasly might do little better.

Should Red Bull follow McLaren's & AlphaTauri's lead and focus on driveability and consistent balance?

Like Red Bull, Renault also seem to have a peaky car and it doesn't seem to do them any good either.

[epo]

It is arguably still the second fastest car

That's true!

Yet Albon seems to struggle with it, and a repromoted Gasly might do little better.

Should Red Bull follow McLaren's & AlphaTauri's lead and focus on driveability and consistent balance?

Like Red Bull, Renault also seem to have a peaky car and it doesn't seem to do them any good either.

Really no, let Gasly stay at AT, the car most likely next year will still be difficult to drive. Maybe with the budget cap AT will get some more budget from RB and personal and more from Honda? Better to let him stay until the RB is proven better. I think Kyvat is done, and with the new Japanse guy coming it could be a nice combo.

Also people complaining the car is being tailored for Max, well that would be different if he had a good teammate who actually could give GOOD feedback. Albon is not there yet, let him finish the season and hopefully he will grow.