2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Just_a_fan]

You must know that - It's clear you're really reaching to make a point

And for the record, I don't think RB was within 1-2 tenths of other teams. I disagree with the quote

Of course, the point is that there is such a large amount of nuance and detail that the bland "all bar 0.2s is down to the driver" is as ridiculous as claiming one person designs the car or any of the other silly things that get stated/inferred by journalists and others.

[Espresso]

AMuS journalist Peter Schmidt on the Dutch GP

"In Zandvoort the Red Bull is 1-2 tenths faster(than other teams), the rest is Max Verstappen."

No driver is capable of lapping faster than the car is capable of lapping. Doesn't matter who it is, it's physically not possible. Fangio, Senna, Michael, Fernando, Max, whomever, can't make a car can't go faster than it's capable of going.

? Nobody speaking about limits. Just the average top F1 driver…

And btw if I remember correctly…
And if someone can help to find it…long time ago Newey quoted that Max could extract more speed out of the car than his design-limits …

[organic]

You must know that - It's clear you're really reaching to make a point

And for the record, I don't think RB was within 1-2 tenths of other teams. I disagree with the quote

Of course, the point is that there is such a large amount of nuance and detail that the bland "all bar 0.2s is down to the driver" is as ridiculous as claiming one person designs the car or any of the other silly things that get stated/inferred by journalists and others.

Yes fair enough. Journalists have to make a living and that usually means statements without any facts to back it up - these are the best for generating good quotes. I have ended up posting it here after all.

I would say that if you dig into the data it's not outlandish. The average race pace advantage of max relative to Fernando was about 0.25s



Assuming Schmidt's 1 - 2 tenth advantage max wouldn't even need to make up more than a tenth to fernando. Something entirely within the realm of possibility for a difference between drivers.

If you look back at Alonso's time next to Ocon, I would say Ocon was not more than 1 tenth slower than Fernando on race pace that often. Even sometimes he was quicker than Alonso. This year, Gasly is now fairly equal against Ocon - Gasly is coming into Ocon's backyard and has outqualified his teammate. Can we say that Gasly and Ocon are generally considered average F1 drivers? If so I would say a 'great' like Hamilton or Max (in current form) could put more than 3 tenths race pace into Gasly/Ocon - max's advantage to Gasly was over 6 tenths when teammates for instance. This would loosely infer 2 tenths into current Alonso is possible...

As for 5 tenths different to Perez. That seems about average for max-perez especially considering much of it was wet when he usually puts >1s per lap into him

So to me it feels like a statement that could be true, but like you said it's something journalists will say out of nowhere. We'd need teams' data to really conclude it

[Sieper]

Max already was a teammate of Gasly. He did put more than 3 tenths into him.

[KimiRai]

I would say that if you dig into the data it's not outlandish. The average race pace advantage of max relative to Fernando was about 0.25s

https://i.imgur.com/tP1a0o9.png

Assuming Schmidt's 1 - 2 tenth advantage max wouldn't even need to make up more than a tenth to fernando. Something entirely within the realm of possibility for a difference between drivers.

This weekend Max and Alonso were both on top of their cars and I think the supposed gap between the drivers would've been smaller. If anything, when it was raining heavily I saw Max driving slightly more carefully.

If you look back at Alonso's time next to Ocon, I would say Ocon was not more than 1 tenth slower than Fernando on race pace that often. Even sometimes he was quicker than Alonso.

I have to disagree. There was not one race where he had more pace than Fernando that was not caused by PU or an issue. Estimated gap in race pace was similar to Massa in 2013, so ironically the year that the gap increased (Ocon was much closer in 2021) he finished behind on points. I can revisit each one, though it would get to extreme off topic levels, more than it already is.

[Chuckjr]

Perez said he likes the ... change will be beneficial

Brother, awesome assessment and really clarifying for me re: Perez. Thank you.

[Juzh]

No driver is capable of lapping faster than the car is capable of lapping. Doesn't matter who it is, it's physically not possible. Fangio, Senna, Michael, Fernando, Max, whomever, can't make a car can't go faster than it's capable of going.

I think the implication is that the car performance between the teams is similar, but that max extracted closer to the maximum of what is available at Netherlands than other teams' drivers. Nobody's suggesting he's outdriving the car or whatever as that, everyone agrees I think, is not possible

Lewis himself said he thinks that the car was capable of at least being close to challenging max. But over the weekend things didn't go right on both team side and driver side that made it impossible to fully show this, for instance.

Well in terms of personal fastest laps, Fernando (lap 56) was quicker than Max (lap 58) by 0.052s and Lewis (lap 58) was slower than Max by 0.015s. Max was faster than Perez (lap59) by 0.342s (all within a lap or three of each other) but Fernando and Lewis were 1.3-1.2s faster than their respective team mates. So the guys getting more out of their cars appear to be "not Max", frankly, at least in comparison to their team mates.
https://www.formula1.com/en/results.htm ... -laps.html

So, to say that the car is 0.1-0.2s faster than the cars and Max was doing the rest would suggest that Max actually didn't do that good a job after all because his own fastest lap wasn't actually anything special compared to others in less good cars.

Of course, there are many factors at play and Max usually goes for his "hah, catch this you suckers!" fastest lap right at the end when, unfortunately, the track was not conducive to that in Holland. But these throw away lines by journalists don't do anyone any favours - other than garner clicks for their employer.

Verstappen literally didn't do a single flat out push lap on soft tyres. He was cruising entire race and was giving up multiple tenths in high speed corners (even to perez) and then made it up elsewhere in the track. Had it not rained with some laps to go gap would increase substantially to everyone behind as they were burning up their tyres, and that includes alonso.

[Wouter]

Max and Horner were already this afternoon in Milan for a Tag Heuer event.



https://scontent-ams2-1.cdninstagram.co ... sid=6d62aa

https://scontent-ams4-1.cdninstagram.co ... sid=6d62aa

[AR3-GP]

Are there RB fans in Italy?

[marcel171281]

Are there RB fans in Italy?

Yes. Just as there are plenty of them in the UK. Also plenty of Hamilton/Mercedes fans in the Netherlands and Ferrari fan everywhere.

[Wouter]

[Wouter]

A very long interview (also on video at the end ) with Max and Italian Skysport F1 journalist Mara Sangiorgio:

https://www.tumblr.com/maxarchive/72710 ... urce=share

https://va.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_s05s ... i4_720.mp4

[organic]

Pepe martí, Spanish F3 driver, joins RB junior program. Seems the noises about thinning it out maybe were not followed up on

[AR3-GP]

Pepe martí, Spanish F3 driver, joins RB junior program. Seems the noises about thinning it out maybe were not followed up on

To be fair, cuts are more likely to be announced at end of season, than mid-season whereas scooping up a promising talent is more likely to be done at any point of a season.

[Wouter]