Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Joseki]

If I remember correctly Mercedes clearly stated that the new V6 turbo has 98% the power of the old V8.

[FW17]

Cosworth put out a figure of 120 hp sustainable from MGU-H

[godlameroso]

http://planetf1.com/news/mclaren-light- ... he-tunnel/

From the article:
"Honda will be pleased by the WMSC’s decision to allow 32 development tokens for 2016 rather than the 25 that was originally scheduled. However, it is a figure they share with all their counterparts and so they’ll still need to spend them wisely. One of the biggest issues for Honda is rectifying their energy recovery and deployment issues. Key to this will be the redesign of the Turbo and MGU-H, as the MGU-K has limitations placed on it whereas the H does not. The likes of Mercedes and Ferrari’s turboes are able to produce far more boost than is required and therefore use the H to slow the turbo, recovering electrical energy, the Honda PU does not."
My emphasis.

He then goes on to say that Ferrari's turbo is of comparable size, which goes in line with Wazari's statement, that they don't need to make the housing itself bigger, but rather create a turbo of higher capacity.

Matt Somerfield may not be technically correct, in the bolded part, as we've already beaten that topic to death, but you have to wonder where he gets his information from. Maybe he hangs out around here too much.

[jure]

Why don't you guys consider fuel to be more energy dense than suggested. According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density gasoline has energy density of 44MJ/kg and diesel has 48 MJ/kg. I'm not sure what regulations say, but if those numbers are correct, f1 special fuel could reach 50 MJ/kg. This would bring efficiency down to a more reasonable numbers.

[Joseki]

I've heard other rumors about some problems Honda is having on dyno: they seems to have good power but it's still unreliable, 17 days and we'll know more.

Were these in the media? My understanding is that things are progressing nicely except for minor issues here and there.

Oh, thank you, so it seems the power is "confirmed" to be there from different sources but reliability is still a bit unknown. Still better than last year were they were missing both. =D>

[GoranF1]

Honda a threat to Mercedes and Ferrari.
http://en.f1i.com/news/40541-honda-are- ... cedes.html

[Thunder]

Saw it too just now. Don't know what to think about the Ferrari Part but it's nice to see him at least take Honda seriously. That in my eyes is a complinent in itself. He is hugely downplaying the Merc PU though. Basically managing Expectations.

[dren]

When it was stated that the Mercedes PU is as powerful as the old V10 it may not be peak power but the band of usable power. These new PUs have fat and fairly flat power curves. The old V10s were much more peaky. It may be an area under the power curve comparison rather than max peak output.

[GoranF1]

Saw it too just now. Don't know what to think about the Ferrari Part but it's nice to see him at least take Honda seriously. That in my eyes is a complinent in itself. He is hugely downplaying the Merc PU though. Basically managing Expectations.

Andrew Bensow seems to have talked to Cowell,and he thinks Mercedes had over 900Bhp in 2015,which would give their ICE over 740bhp...so if Wazari is right Honda will be long way off whit 690 in 2016.
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 1440949248 He also told him this....
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 6362967040

[jure]

I don't know how to paste twitter post, but Andrew Benson says Merc PU is approaching 50% thermal efficiency. Let's say they have 900hp. Together with 100kg/h flow limit this gives fuel energy density of 48.3MJ/kg.

[Andres125sx]

Andrew Bensow seems to have talked to Cowell,and he thinks Mercedes had over 900Bhp in 2015,which would give their ICE over 740bhp...so if Wazari is right Honda will be long way off whit 690 in 2016.

Long way off? if it really is 50bhp that´d be great news to me

At least if ERS is comparable and real difference between Mercedes and Honda PUs is just 50bhp. Considering this is second season for Honda and also considering their problems in first one, only 50bhp difference would be great

[GoranF1]

Andrew Bensow seems to have talked to Cowell,and he thinks Mercedes had over 900Bhp in 2015,which would give their ICE over 740bhp...so if Wazari is right Honda will be long way off whit 690 in 2016.

Long way off? if it really is 50bhp that´d be great news to me

At least if ERS is comparable and real difference between Mercedes and Honda PUs is just 50bhp. Considering this is second season for Honda and also considering their problems in first one, only 50bhp difference would be great

That would actualy be 690(2016 Honda) to 740(2015 Mercedes) plus the improvment Merc is going to make 15-16.....so if true a disaster. (I just hope wazari was being modest)

[j.yank]

With all necessary cautiousness the OptimumLab simulations of all races from the second part of the last season show ICE power of Mercedes about 750 bhp and 700 bhp for Honda. The results of all teams are very consistently replicated if we assume that Honda MGU-H alone had about 30% of the efficiency of the other MGU-H. Yes, there are a lot of assumptions for the tires and downforce settings, but the I think that these ballpark numbers are close to the reality.

[godlameroso]

Why wasn't Mercedes much faster in 2015 than 2014 then? They were faster, but only a few tenths. Abu Dhabi GP 2014 pole time was 1:40.480 in 2015 same tires same conditions 1:40.237 or a little less than a quarter tenth, in contrast McLaren was around half a second slower (just over .6 seconds) in 2015 compared to 2014 with a much weaker power unit. 1:41.964(2014) vs 1:42.570(2015). Mercedes may dip into the 39's for 2016, and if McHonda gains 2.5 seconds they'll be there, or thereabouts.

[j.yank]

Why wasn't Mercedes much faster in 2015 than 2014 then? They were faster, but only a few tenths. Abu Dhabi GP 2014 pole time was 1:40.480 in 2015 same tires same conditions 1:40.237 or a little less than a quarter tenth, in contrast McLaren was around half a second slower (just over .6 seconds) in 2015 compared to 2014 with a much weaker power unit. 1:41.964(2014) vs 1:42.570(2015). Mercedes may dip into the 39's for 2016, and if McHonda gains 2.5 seconds they'll be there, or thereabouts.

Because most important is the available energy from ERS that depends mainly on MGU-H efficiency. Mercedes had in both seasons highest available ERS energy and the only difference between 2014 and 2015 was the ICE power. I believe that this difference was about 50 bhp for Mercedes which gives exactly a few tenths. If Honda get the same power from ICE and full efficiency from MGU-H they will catch Mercedes (if Mercedes cannot pull more from ICE). If Mercedes improve ICE by another 50 bhp (which I doubt) then they will be less 0.5 sec ahead of Honda.