Mercedes W13

[ClarkBT11]

Track temps have been pretty low at races so far, I wonder if merc might fair better once we get to hotter tracks in the summer

The W13 does look more competitive when compared to Ferrari and Red bull on the time sheets when the track temperature has been hotter in the daytime practices. I guess it's hard to fix the problems fast when you can't afford financially get it wrong.

[VacuousFlamboyant]

The whole package is prone to a multiple objective optimization that can derive a nondominated solution, providing they understand the trade-offs between conflicting objectives. As far as everything goes, the lack of new parts is understandable. "Fixing" one at a time could lead to inconsistencies, porpoising. They need to stay at a threshold, before porpoising kicks in, to maximize downforce.

In this regard, Ferrari success may be misleading. Ferrari has porpoising, but their concave sidepods (and underbody) is less susceptible to porpoising ups and downs as it might absorb some of the detached flow better, thus creating less drag. Something that is exacerbated in the Mercedes by the excess of suspension work and the center of gravity being placed further down, rather than the sidepods themselves. Suspension and weight reduction may be the first pieces of this puzzle. Only then, shear stress and pressure distribution around the sidepods and the flat floor might be tackled.

Indeed, the car behave much better during the GP. Whatever they have done to the setup, it seems the front suspension wasn't lifting too much compared to FP.

[e30ernest]

People earlier were posting pics of Mercs floor and comparing it to Red Bull's. Can someone post a pic of Red Bull's floor for the side by side comparison?

Here you go:



Merc on the left, Red Bull on the right.

Edit: Right click and open in new tab to see full image resolution. The Merc image was rather low res compared to the Red Bull's photo, but I did enlarge the Merc's to the Bull's resolution.

[Phukka]

People earlier were posting pics of Mercs floor and comparing it to Red Bull's. Can someone post a pic of Red Bull's floor for the side by side comparison?

Here you go:



Merc on the left, Red Bull on the right.

Is that rear strake even legal & does that not completely stop the car ride height from physically dropping too low?

[KiLLu12258]

The car was porpoising in Barcelona. I don't think the sidepod itself is the solution to their porpoising. Cars of any sidepod design can porpoise.

i mean ferrari had really hard porpoising in melbourne too but they were the best anyway, it seems like it does not cost lap time for them.

So for me its not even sure that it will bring that much if mercdes can fix it.

[F1Krof]

People earlier were posting pics of Mercs floor and comparing it to Red Bull's. Can someone post a pic of Red Bull's floor for the side by side comparison?

Here you go:

https://i.imgur.com/pwYc0BH.jpg

Merc on the left, Red Bull on the right.

Is it the perspective, or does it seem like the Red Bull's underfloor streaks look a lot longer than Mercs'?

[AMG.Tzan]

People earlier were posting pics of Mercs floor and comparing it to Red Bull's. Can someone post a pic of Red Bull's floor for the side by side comparison?

Here you go:

https://i.imgur.com/pwYc0BH.jpg

Merc on the left, Red Bull on the right.

Wow so much difference...

Anyone with great knowledge on aerodynamics willing to comment on the following question:
Mercedes' underfloor streaks look a lot more angled, to produce outwash apparently, than Red Bull's! Doesn't this create a lot more drag for them??

I know aerodynamics aren't that simple but it makes me wonder why Red Bull is so much faster down the straights! Mercedes can't even pass them with DRS...

[f1jcw]

The car was porpoising in Barcelona. I don't think the sidepod itself is the solution to their porpoising. Cars of any sidepod design can porpoise.

i mean ferrari had really hard porpoising in melbourne too but they were the best anyway, it seems like it does not cost lap time for them.

So for me its not even sure that it will bring that much if mercdes can fix it.

yeah, seems more to do with lacking striaghtline speed, either drag or engine power

[PhillipM]

Ferrari has porpoising, but their concave sidepods (and underbody) is less susceptible to porpoising ups and downs as it might absorb some of the detached flow better, thus creating less drag. Something that is exacerbated in the Mercedes by the excess of suspension work and the center of gravity being placed further down, rather than the sidepods themselves.

Not only that, but the width of the pods means the floor is much easier to make stiffer so they suffer much less with the floor itself also getting into a complimentary oscillation along with the rest of the car.

[mclaren_mircea]

I know it is not politics, and it is a joke, but Im talking about Mercedes porpoising like president Biden about Putin: ,,For Gods sake... we need a new floor. A totally new floor from the front to the rear" Im not an aerodynamicist but from what I read and from what I understand I see the floor like a silver bullet for Mercedes. The pictures above with the Red Bull and Mercedes floors... Im embarassed as a Mercedes fan and after Totto said they switched resources so early for this car to see the Mercedes floor. IT LOOKS UNDERDEVELOPED compared to Red Bull. Way to simple. We need a magical floor!! NOW! In Imola not in Spain or some sort of race in June.

[Vanja #66]

I know aerodynamics aren't that simple but it makes me wonder why Red Bull is so much faster down the straights! Mercedes can't even pass them with DRS...

Floors were discussed in a few posts from here viewtopic.php?p=1052600#p1052600
and here viewtopic.php?p=1052591#p1052591

As for speed, there are two cases - with DRS on and off. DRS off, there is not a lot of difference in top speed between the two, from what I've seen in Jeddah and Melbourne. Ferrari is also roughly the same.

With DRS on, speed difference comes from the rear wing geometry, both the main plane and the flap. W13 main plane is bigger than RB and the flap is a lot smaller, making the DRS on drag greater than RB18. This applies to Ferrari as well, their DRS flap is also smaller than RB. Also, W13 main plane interference drag with endplate is most likely the biggest of any car, since Mercedes didn't apply any dihedral angle to it.

[Shrieker]

Sadly, that is the exact definition of a dud

[cplchanb]

Sadly, that is the exact definition of a dud

They need to recalibrate their software and wind tunnel to model the reality. This appears to be a correlation issue.

[pursue_one's]

Lewis ran an Laser Ride height sensor.

[matteosc]

In this regard, Ferrari success may be misleading. Ferrari has porpoising, but their concave sidepods (and underbody) is less susceptible to porpoising ups and downs as it might absorb some of the detached flow better, thus creating less drag. Something that is exacerbated in the Mercedes by the excess of suspension work and the center of gravity being placed further down, rather than the sidepods themselves.

I do not think that Mercedes has a lower center of gravity than Ferrari. On the contrary, Ferrari has way less mass behind the airscope and all radiators are generally positioned lower than Mercedes.