Italian GP 2011 - Autodromo Nazionale Monza

[Intego]

EDIT: Deleted double info

[rfs]

Umm, doesn't make much sense to me, sorry. I think DRS is at least as good as f-duct, and KERS is worth something. So, is that the dry weight that did all that?
Also, on many other tracks yesteryear results were comfortably beaten, why is Monza that different?

Last years cars also had double diffusers.

[timbo]

Umm, doesn't make much sense to me, sorry. I think DRS is at least as good as f-duct, and KERS is worth something. So, is that the dry weight that did all that?
Also, on many other tracks yesteryear results were comfortably beaten, why is Monza that different?

Last years cars also had double diffusers.

You'd think that out of all tracks it would have smallest effect @ Monza?

[Mr Alcatraz]

So if the speed trap times are about the same, don't you think this wing that Button used at Monza last year could make up the difference in the turns?

[bill shoe]

What am I missing? I thought drivers had to keep at least one tire on or within the white lines at the edge of the track. I thought the FIA clarified that point for 2011.

At Monza today, drivers regularly put all four tires past the white line on qualy laps that were counted. Examples (not to pick on them) were the fastest times from Perez and Senna in Q2. Why was this OK?

Also, will four-tires-off continue to be OK in the race?

[timbo]

So if the speed trap times are about the same, don't you think this wing that Button used at Monza last year could make up the difference in the turns?

Well, that's assuming f-duct wing is as effective as non-f-duct.
Another interesting thing is that only macca and ferrari lost time compared to last year. RedBull actually gained!

[raymondu999]

What am I missing? I thought drivers had to keep at least one tire on or within the white lines at the edge of the track. I thought the FIA clarified that point for 2011.

At Monza today, drivers regularly put all four tires past the white line on qualy laps that were counted. Examples (not to pick on them) were the fastest times from Perez and Senna in Q2. Why was this OK?

Also, will four-tires-off continue to be OK in the race?

If you go off on the exit, and "outside" of the corner, then that's accepted; as it "lengthens" the racetrack. If you cut the inside, you're creating a "shortcut," and that's what's not accepted.

Mind you there are some corners where this is just disregarded by the FIA as everyone does it anyways; for example Turn 8 Barcelona last year. All 4 wheels of all cars were off the white lines, and even off the kerbs.

[raymondu999]

If Vettel really is gaining that much in the corners; I wonder if that will help him in avoiding graining. At such low downforce levels of Monza; sliding/locking would probably affect the tyres greatly; while Vettel's greater downforce levels would help that.

[Mr Alcatraz]

So if the speed trap times are about the same, don't you think this wing that Button used at Monza last year could make up the difference in the turns?

Well, that's assuming f-duct wing is as effective as non-f-duct.
Another interesting thing is that only macca and ferrari lost time compared to last year. RedBull actually gained!

And coincidently they were the only teams with really effective rear wing stall devices, especially McLaren.
Go to a gallery and look at the cars that didn't have RWSD or not a very effective one. They are running Monza wings, and I'm guessing they were running 1:22+ in quali.

[raymondu999]

Hamilton did a 1:22.6 in quali last year without F-duct. Jenson 1:22.1 or some such time.

I guess maybe the loss of time could be due to the loss of the DDD. The DDD meant you had more "floor" downforce, and so you could run less wing, I guess?

[Mr Alcatraz]

Hamilton did a 1:22.6 in quali last year without F-duct. Jenson 1:22.1 or some such time.

I guess maybe the loss of time could be due to the loss of the DDD. The DDD meant you had more "floor" downforce, and so you could run less wing, I guess?

Well that shoots my theory to hell.

[HampusA]

Mind you there are some corners where this is just disregarded by the FIA as everyone does it anyways; for example Turn 8 Barcelona last year. All 4 wheels of all cars were off the white lines, and even off the kerbs.

Yea Turn 8 was last year a corner you could put the whole car off the track wihtout any punishment. But not this year because it had the new kerbs remember.

Those red blobs they use now seems very effective at keeping F1 cars on the black stuff.

[marcush.]

the top speeds vs laptime clearly shows that a 330kmh topspeed and downforce attributed to it will yield the best laptimes and not out and out drag reduction

So Vettel has a disadavantage of 10kmh vs most of the other guys with DRS deployed -we don´t know how big the spread is when you can´t use DRS.

Sure Mcl uses a bigger rear wing and their drag figures will be higher in those 3 laps at the beginning .But nobody is using DRS more than RedBull so their drag figures over one lap are hurted most in those early laps affecting their laptime more than others.
I think Vettel will not be able to build a sufficient gap and will not feature in the race as a candidate for the win.

[raymondu999]

nobody is using DRS more than RedBull

How do you know that?

Given that McLaren have a bigger wing; would it not be reasonable to assume that when they actually press the DRS button; they enjoy a bigger drag reduction?

[MrBlacky]

You are really confusing me. I just can't follow this discussion about the slower lap times compared to last year...
Maybe thats why I don't understand how Vettel can be 5 tenths quicker than anybody else whether he is with 327 kph way off the pace...

Ferrari for example must have lost huge amount of time in the corners to be still slower than vettel.