2013 Monaco Grand Prix

[myurr]

Can't help but remember schumi out qualifying rosberg here (and lots of other places) last year. As brundle pointed out recently on Twitter, rosberg's form this year underlines how fast a 43 year-old Schumacher still was.

Why do people keep posting about Schumacher? every single time Rosberg beats Hamilton something about him gets posted, let it go move on, he is no longer in F1..

Because for three years we heard that not being able to conclusively beat rosberg was a sign of not being that fast, and that Hamilton is the yardstick of out and out fastest etc.

But more importantly, in this specific moment, it's not unusual to remember the pole from last year's race - especially when set by the same car.

Equally though it takes drivers a while to settle into cars and learn how to set them up and extract everything from them. I would imagine this to be even more true with the fundamental differences in downforce from the 2012 McLaren to the 2013 Merc, the radically different suspension, and the change in race engineer. Rosberg has essentially been driving variations of this car for four years now, this is Hamilton's 6th race. Lewis started strongly but seems to have gone a little wrong with the setup over the last couple of weekends, I'm sure they'll get on top of it.

Judge their relative pace at the end of the year.

Edit: it should also be noted that Hamilton was fastest of all in sectors 2 and 3 but had a relatively poor S1 which cost him pole.

[ringo]

I don't think shumacher can be compared to rosberg this year with hamilton.
The tyres are so much worse this year, that you cannot make a pace comparison.
Look how quick Masssa is than Alonso in most cases this year during the race and qualifying.
When i said Hamilton is a slow learner, i mean relative to Rosberg, the guy who could have been an engineer, if he didn't get into professional racing. Not excuses, but .09 of a second isn't much and there's no reason to debate that seeing as though Hamilton's sector 1 wasn't great. I haven't seen where one is faster than the other this year. I don't think we can't with these tyres either.
I have seen when either of them have chosen certain techniques to preserve the car and find a balance between qualifying and race. Hamilton his main goal being to win races, Nico as well but more of a get pole and block to the finish kinda tactic. Nico, though i'm a Hamilton fan, obviously is more procedural and technically analytical. Hamilton more tactically and adaptive. Hamilton's going to take a while to maths out the Mercedes and the tyres.

In fact who knows what will happen tomorrow but i don't think it's gonna be a straight forward race with these tyres.

[jamsbong]

First of all, I think it is great that Brundle can 'finally see' that Schumacher is such a fast driver keeping up with Rosberg.

Secondly, with thanks to Rosberg, I think we can finally put the myth of Hamilton's speed to rest. He is never really fast. He is entertaining to watch though. That also goes to show how slow Button really is... pfft...

Finally, Rosberg must be thinking 'it is about time that I gain some proper recognition'. He lacks aggression like Hamilton or Schumacher; and in this cut-throat F1 world, you can't do that. Now I think he is finally changing his attitude and be a bit ruthless and focus on one thing only - to WIN.

[WhiteBlue]

If we assume that overtaking will be impossible and we have stable conditions for the race tomorrow then he only opportunity for passing will be the stops. I believe that all teams have the ability to do a one stop strategy if overtaking is impeded as much as we have heard in the last week. Under this assumption we will see a train of cars behind the Mercs and I doubt that someone will try to undercut both Mercs as they are likely to get stuck deep in the field. Another assumption is that we will still have a Merc 1-2 after the start. One likely scenario is that Merc will order the second driver to open a gap for the leading driver. That could help them to get their leading driver a free pit stop and drive away with a race win. At least it would be a sensible strategy that Ferrari would probably apply in similar circumstances.

[ringo]

First of all, I think it is great that Brundle can 'finally see' that Schumacher is such a fast driver keeping up with Rosberg.

Secondly, with thanks to Rosberg, I think we can finally put the myth of Hamilton's speed to rest. He is never really fast. He is entertaining to watch though. That also goes to show how slow Button really is... pfft...

Finally, Rosberg must be thinking 'it is about time that I gain some proper recognition'. He lacks aggression like Hamilton or Schumacher; and in this cut-throat F1 world, you can't do that. Now I think he is finally changing his attitude and be a bit ruthless and focus on one thing only - to WIN.

I dont agree with you. Watching this year, i would think Alonso is ordinary until the last part of a race. we know he is damn fast. There is no myth with Hamilton's speed. We're not in the days of zero compromise on qualifying and tyres. Plus with these complicated tyres and a complicated setup window to make them work properly, it's much more than raw speed. It's a lot of management and technique. There's a lot left in the year to draw a conclusion.
With Nakajima, Shunacher and Webber being so well compared to Rosberg, i think it's more than meets the eye this year.

[ringo]

If we assume that overtaking will be impossible and we have stable conditions for the race tomorrow then he only opportunity for passing will be the stops. I believe that all teams have the ability to do a one stop strategy if overtaking is impeded as much as we have heard in the last week. Under this assumption we will see a train of cars behind the Mercs and I doubt that someone will try to undercut both Mercs as they are likely to get stuck deep in the field. Another assumption is that we will still have a Merc 1-2 after the start. One likely scenario is that Merc will order the second driver to open a gap for the leading driver. That could help them to get their leading driver a free pit stop and drive away with a race win. At least it would be a sensible strategy that Ferrari would probably apply in similar circumstances.

I think coming out of the tunnel, we will see some overtaking of cars on poor tyres. Oveertaking will happen this sunday.

[kebab]

If we assume that overtaking will be impossible and we have stable conditions for the race tomorrow then he only opportunity for passing will be the stops. I believe that all teams have the ability to do a one stop strategy if overtaking is impeded as much as we have heard in the last week. Under this assumption we will see a train of cars behind the Mercs and I doubt that someone will try to undercut both Mercs as they are likely to get stuck deep in the field. Another assumption is that we will still have a Merc 1-2 after the start. One likely scenario is that Merc will order the second driver to open a gap for the leading driver. That could help them to get their leading driver a free pit stop and drive away with a race win. At least it would be a sensible strategy that Ferrari would probably apply in similar circumstances.

I think coming out of the tunnel, we will see some overtaking of cars on poor tyres. Oveertaking will happen this sunday.

+1...and watch out the bumps at the breaking zone here, anything can happen when someone try hard to make up places.

[beardRage]

NBC is supposed to be replaying qualifying right now. It was supposed to start at 2130 but they are playing the IPL 500 Parade. I'm NOT pleased. I have no choice but to read the results now. I passed out and remember briefly waking up when someone screamed "WOW!!" and there was an onboard shot. Guess I'll never know what I missed

[godlameroso]

One stop will be too slow, two stops is faster but traffic will make teams seriously consider it. It could work if timed right because fresh tires will be too fast for worn tires to fend off.

[raymondu999]

One stop will be too slow, two stops is faster but traffic will make teams seriously consider it. It could work if timed right because fresh tires will be too fast for worn tires to fend off.

I concur. IMO an OOP 2-stop would be far superior to the 1-stop in terms of a 78-lap time attack, but the problem is you need to either make a pitstop gap at some point, or overtake the other guy. In Monaco, overtaking is nigh-on impossible, and making a pitstop gap isnt possible IMO. With the field as close as it is, the best you can hope for is to catch up to the other car and then you'd have to follow him around anyway - at which point he pits and then undercuts you in the final round of stops anyway

[LionKing]

First of all, I think it is great that Brundle can 'finally see' that Schumacher is such a fast driver keeping up with Rosberg.

Secondly, with thanks to Rosberg, I think we can finally put the myth of Hamilton's speed to rest. He is never really fast. He is entertaining to watch though. That also goes to show how slow Button really is... pfft...

Finally, Rosberg must be thinking 'it is about time that I gain some proper recognition'. He lacks aggression like Hamilton or Schumacher; and in this cut-throat F1 world, you can't do that. Now I think he is finally changing his attitude and be a bit ruthless and focus on one thing only - to WIN.

I dont agree with you. Watching this year, i would think Alonso is ordinary until the last part of a race. we know he is damn fast. There is no myth with Hamilton's speed. We're not in the days of zero compromise on qualifying and tyres. Plus with these complicated tyres and a complicated setup window to make them work properly, it's much more than raw speed. It's a lot of management and technique. There'in a lot left in the year to draw a conclusion.
With Nakajina, Shumacher and Webber being so well compared to Rosberg, i think it's more than meets the eye this year.

I have said this a year ago. Vettel and Rosberg are the fastest guy in qualifying in F1!

Secondly Schumacher at 43 was still very good. It was 10-10 between him and Rosberg last year in qualy. Schumacher would very likely outqualified Rosberg at Canada too had he managed to start the lap in time. His Q2 lap was fast. Same races last year qualifying positions:
Schumacher 4 - 3 - 3 - 18 - 8 - 1
Rosberg 7 - 8 - 1 - 5 - 6 - 3

Alonso ordinary until the last part of a race??? Two dominant wins, very good speed at Australia, two races ruined at the very beginning when he hit Vettel from behind and a DRS issue.

I don't think there were days of zero compromise before. Schumacher almost always set up his car with the race in mind in his first career too.

The myth of Lewis is radiated by his fans. I find it similar to Montoya myth before. Sentences like "he has the raw speed but ..." Montoya even lost the overall Qualy battle with Ralf Schumacher in 4 years as teammate. No need to mention his McLaren time with Raikkonen...

[SectorOne]

I have said this a year ago. Vettel and Rosberg are the fastest guy in qualifying in F1!

Interesting...
Then you don´t mind explaining why Hamilton on average this year is a little bit more then a tenth faster then Rosberg?
Or why his grid position is 2.66 compared to Rosberg´s 3.16

The facts are that Hamilton, despite not feeling 100% confident in the car (specifically braking) still is on average the quicker driver of the two. Just like Schumacher was.

You and the rest of the media are caught up in the fact that Rosberg has taken three straight poles.
The same hysteria would have been talked about had Massa taken 4 straight poles the time he outqualified Alonso for a while.

[LionKing]

I have said this a year ago. Vettel and Rosberg are the fastest guy in qualifying in F1!

Interesting...
Then you don´t mind explaining why Hamilton on average this year is a little bit more then a tenth faster then Rosberg?
Or why his grid position is 2.66 compared to Rosberg´s 3.16

The facts are that Hamilton, despite not feeling 100% confident in the car (specifically braking) still is on average the quicker driver of the two. Just like Schumacher was.
and
You and the rest of the media are caught up in the fact that Rosberg has taken three straight poles.

At Australia, Rosberg was noticably faster than Hamilton in the dry but ended up half a second slower in damp conditions in Q3. Same situation in Malaysia, Rosberg ended up 8 tenths slower in Q3.

These are the dry qualifyings so far:
China: Lewis -0.377
Bahrain: Rosberg: -0.432
Spain: Rosberg -0.254
Monaco: Rosberg -0.091

At China Rosberg was also half a second quicker in FP1 and FP2. He had hydraulics issue in FP3 and couldn't do his qualy simulation. I would say Rosberg has the measure of Lewis in dry conditions so far.

Also 3 poles in a row is something Lewis hasn't been able to achieve in his whole career yet despite usually driving best or second best cars

[dave34m]

I have said this a year ago. Vettel and Rosberg are the fastest guy in qualifying in F1!

Interesting...
Then you don´t mind explaining why Hamilton on average this year is a little bit more then a tenth faster then Rosberg?
Or why his grid position is 2.66 compared to Rosberg´s 3.16

The facts are that Hamilton, despite not feeling 100% confident in the car (specifically braking) still is on average the quicker driver of the two. Just like Schumacher was.

You and the rest of the media are caught up in the fact that Rosberg has taken three straight poles.
The same hysteria would have been talked about had Massa taken 4 straight poles the time he outqualified Alonso for a while.

Yes all very interesting, but the guy has 3 straight pole positions, thats not bad really

[Websta]

When Webber took 3 straight poles (and what looked to be three straight victories) from Catalunya to Turkey in 2010, people also got a bit caught up in the whole thing, thinking that he had now gotten the measure of Vettel. Whilst it was a very impressive stretch of form, Web didn't sustain it throughout the whole season.

All I am saying is let the whole season play out first before you say one driver is a better qualifier than the other. Definitely praise Rosberg for three consecutive poles, but a sample size of six qualifying sessions isn't enough to determine which Merc driver is the better qualifier.



More importantly, what is the weather like in Monaco?