Silly Season 2016/2017

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
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Manu_Forti
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Manu_Forti wrote:
Just_a_fan wrote:The reality about Schumacher is that he is not the driving god that some would say. Put any number of top drivers in the same situation as him in 2000-2004 and they would have done as well.

The richest team, unlimited testing, bespoke tyres made for just them, a contractual number 1 driver position with a deferential number 2. Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton would all have won 5 titles in the same situation. As would Hakkinnen, Senna, Prost and others.

There, it's been said.
Schumacher started driving in F1 in 1991. Are you even aware of that ??, taking a four year window of a far bigger career and coming to that conclusion is ridiculous. I was at Spa whe he made his debut in Jordan. The guy was every bit as good as they say and he proved it down the years. Repeatedly. He was good behind the wheel, fantastic at building a team around him and only Senna could hold a candle to his ruthlessness and will to win. If I had to build a dream team of F1 from any era he would be driving one car.

Instead of looking at a situation where he had the advantage and maximised it look at the times he didnt .. and STILL won. Barcelona 1994 where he drove most of the race in fifth gear, or Barcelona 1996 where he won in a car that should not have to name me but a few. The guy wone seven titles and deserves every accolade going. I just pray he makes the best recovery he can.
Oh yes, the old "fifth gear" thing. Williams had Hill try the same thing at a test session and, surprise, he did basically the same performance. It wasn't that special really. Much like people talk about Senna's Donnington performance. He didn't rate it because the technology helped so much. The only people who idolise these things are the media, hungry for a story, and some fans.

Yes, Schumacher made the most of the car given to him but so does every top driver. Alonso's Renault wins, along with Schumacher's Benetton wins, are much more the impressive performances because they were competitive.

Early career performance can be compared to Vettel's first win or Hamilton's first season. Senna's first season was more remarkable really. Alonso shone in the Minardi - anyone watching knew he was special. Many drivers shine in early performances but few take that further.

I don't take anything away from Schumacher for making the most of every opportunity. On the contrary. However, in terms of results, others would have done as well given the full deck he was playing with. The team gave him the car and he maximised it, with the benefit of a subservient second driver of course.

I hope he recovers but I know that it is a forlorn hope. I'm glad I shook his hand and wished him well for the race in Silverstone paddock back in the day, that's for sure. I fear he'll never shake another hand.
Wow, so not only are you a declared expert on his driving career but also his medical situation .. "I know its a forlorn hope", just how do you "know" this ?? .. are you his doctor too ??

I'll just jog on now as people like yourself, and what you "know", seem to run rampant on this site. From your opinions here I would confidently state you would struggle to hit water if you fell out of a boat.
"In times of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act" .. George Orwell

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Manu_Forti wrote:
Wow, so not only are you a declared expert on his driving career but also his medical situation .. "I know its a forlorn hope", just how do you "know" this ?? .. are you his doctor too ??

I'll just jog on now as people like yourself, and what you "know", seem to run rampant on this site. From your opinions here I would confidently state you would struggle to hit water if you fell out of a boat.
What little news there has been about his condition has not been good news. He's alive but that's about it. If you have any better news than that then please do share it with us.

Being a heart-felt fan of Schumacher is great, but don't let it rule your head.

As for being a declared expert, not at all. I have an opinion: it's different to yours. Don't get all flouncy just because someone who has watched his whole career has a different take on it to you.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Just_a_fan wrote:Oh yes, the old "fifth gear" thing. Williams had Hill try the same thing at a test session and, surprise, he did basically the same performance.
Grossly wrong. In one of the interviews, Pat Symonds and Martin Brundle did mentioned about Hill's attempt, but they also said, he failed to drive it successfully. Please provide an evidence that we are missing that says, Damon Hill indeed succeeded in driving a car, emulating the 5th gear stuck scenario.
Just_a_fan wrote:Yes, Schumacher made the most of the car given to him but so does every top driver. Alonso's Renault wins, along with Schumacher's Benetton wins, are much more the impressive performances because they were competitive.
Why did Alonso failed to succeed in Ferrari like Schumacher succeeded?
Just_a_fan wrote:I don't take anything away from Schumacher for making the most of every opportunity. On the contrary. However, in terms of results, others would have done as well given the full deck he was playing with. The team gave him the car and he maximised it, with the benefit of a subservient second driver of course.
A Team that was a miserable failure before Schumacher joined and the same team that went downwards after he left?

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dren
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Comment removed as it was irrelevant and in poor taste.
Honda!

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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beg you pardon?
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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SR71
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Where drivers end up is interesting but the real silly technical season is where does Ross Brawn end up?

I've heard Ferrari. My guess is Honda/Red Bull (as a new works team).

Just_a_fan
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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GPR-A wrote:
Just_a_fan wrote:Oh yes, the old "fifth gear" thing. Williams had Hill try the same thing at a test session and, surprise, he did basically the same performance.
Grossly wrong. In one of the interviews, Pat Symonds and Martin Brundle did mentioned about Hill's attempt, but they also said, he failed to drive it successfully. Please provide an evidence that we are missing that says, Damon Hill indeed succeeded in driving a car, emulating the 5th gear stuck scenario.
Just_a_fan wrote:Yes, Schumacher made the most of the car given to him but so does every top driver. Alonso's Renault wins, along with Schumacher's Benetton wins, are much more the impressive performances because they were competitive.
Why did Alonso failed to succeed in Ferrari like Schumacher succeeded?
Because the driver alone can not make a losing team in to a winning team. And vice versa.
Just_a_fan wrote:I don't take anything away from Schumacher for making the most of every opportunity. On the contrary. However, in terms of results, others would have done as well given the full deck he was playing with. The team gave him the car and he maximised it, with the benefit of a subservient second driver of course.
A Team that was a miserable failure before Schumacher joined and the same team that went downwards after he left?
Was it just Schumacher at Ferrari or was there a team including Todt and Brawn? What did they do afterwards? Oh yes, one took a failing team away from a manufacturer and won the title on the first go, the other runs the FIA. Did Schumie do it all himself? Really? Don't be daft.

Come on people: Schumacher was a great driver but he couldn't win the titles he did without a huge effort by many people behind the scenes. Those people had to be managed and led. Schuie didn't do that, Brawn and Todt did. Schuie just took what they gave him and maximised the return on investment. He was a great driver but he wasn't a god.

Aral wrote...This is a thread relating to the season 2016-2017. Schumacher is not part of this season
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

NL_Fer
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Is Ross Brawn considering to return? What would work for him, Renault F1, McLaren?

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Ecclestone's spot?

As for a F1 team role -
Perhaps somebody with the function like Niki Lauda i think, i don't know really.
I'm doubtfull about Renault. They could use the services of a man like Ross, but i somehow dont really 'feel' he'd 'fit' there. I also doubt Renault is willing to pay the paycheck he probably will be asking. Mclaren? perhaps. As a replacement of bouillier, i'd say. He has worked with Mercedes before, so it's entirely plausible and Mclaren is in dire need of a decent figure, and Mclaren would surely be both willing and capable as to hand them over his demanded paycheck.

Ferrari? I really dont think so. It would be bad for Ferrari as a brand that the world will see that 'only' Brawn is able to bring success to the team. It would definately hurt the team alltogether, especially when Brawn is going to leave (he isnt gonna live forever obviously). Apart from that, if Brawn would succeed, what would it prove for him? If he would fail, it would be negative for his image and resume, and it's entirely possible even he won't turn about Ferrari's current position.

So what teams indeed would that leave?

Renault - possibly.
Mclaren - probably.
Ferrari - unlikely.
RedBull - unlikely.
Mercedes - definately not.
Sauber - No money, or might be on to something should it become Alfa Romeo?
Haas - interesting, but probably not. too new.
Manor - no money
Toro Rosso - as i don't see RB wanting TR in their footsteps/league, i dont see what Ross would want to do there to hang around in the midfield.
Williams - interesting. they definately could use his efforts. but would frank like it?
Force India - don't see how he'd fit there

Mclaren, Williams, Renault or Alfa Romeo (if it happens) i might say and in that order.

He could also enjoy the retirement and just keep away.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

Jolle
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Manoah2u wrote:Ecclestone's spot?

As for a F1 team role -
Perhaps somebody with the function like Niki Lauda i think, i don't know really.
I'm doubtfull about Renault. They could use the services of a man like Ross, but i somehow dont really 'feel' he'd 'fit' there. I also doubt Renault is willing to pay the paycheck he probably will be asking. Mclaren? perhaps. As a replacement of bouillier, i'd say. He has worked with Mercedes before, so it's entirely plausible and Mclaren is in dire need of a decent figure, and Mclaren would surely be both willing and capable as to hand them over his demanded paycheck.

Ferrari? I really dont think so. It would be bad for Ferrari as a brand that the world will see that 'only' Brawn is able to bring success to the team. It would definately hurt the team alltogether, especially when Brawn is going to leave (he isnt gonna live forever obviously). Apart from that, if Brawn would succeed, what would it prove for him? If he would fail, it would be negative for his image and resume, and it's entirely possible even he won't turn about Ferrari's current position.

So what teams indeed would that leave?

Renault - possibly.
Mclaren - probably.
Ferrari - unlikely.
RedBull - unlikely.
Mercedes - definately not.
Sauber - No money, or might be on to something should it become Alfa Romeo?
Haas - interesting, but probably not. too new.
Manor - no money
Toro Rosso - as i don't see RB wanting TR in their footsteps/league, i dont see what Ross would want to do there to hang around in the midfield.
Williams - interesting. they definately could use his efforts. but would frank like it?
Force India - don't see how he'd fit there

Mclaren, Williams, Renault or Alfa Romeo (if it happens) i might say and in that order.

He could also enjoy the retirement and just keep away.
I think it's more hoping for his return then anything else.

One of the reasons he left Mercedes (besides having more money then worries) is that Mercedes under Toto pioneered a new way to organize a formula one team/factory. With great speed you can see the role of old team manager/owner disappear. This is also the reason I think that Boullier isn't under any extra pressure at McLaren, his part of the job goes well.

If (a big if) he will return it might be in a consulting role at the FIA or FOM, not just for his skills but most of all of his respect up and down the field. There isn't a works team who he didn't work for in some stage in his career and always left on a positive note.

GrayGreat
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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AFAIR, it was said that Ross wanted to 'Run' the team, not just be a part of it and when Mercedes decided to divide the operation among several people (Toto, Niki, Paddy), he did not like it (or maybe it was not his style to work like this). It was somewhat along these lines, I can't remember accurately. So the question is, if he returns, which team would be willing to give him the kind of role that he wants in the team?
Last edited by Steven on 05 Jun 2016, 19:05, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed quoted post just above

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Steven
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Voting has been disabled in this thread, long overdue...

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Vasconia
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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GPR-A wrote:
Vasconia wrote:He has been always underrated and its quite unfair. He lacks the charm of Alonso or Hamilton and perhaps their magic touch but he can be as fast as both drivers.
Because there isn't a single performance of him, which was breath taking and instead, has too many messy performances to prove otherwise. Someone who has no clue how to hold the steering wheel in wet.
I agree that he is not a top-driver in wet. If you compare his performances with what Michael and Lewis used/use to do...

Anyway "too many" should a litte bit too harsh, dont you think?

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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So now the media is spreading rumours Perez' father claims Perez' due for Ferrari to replace Raikkonen perhaps even during this season :P
thought it was silly enough to put in the sillyseason topic.....
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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Vasconia
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Manoah2u wrote:So now the media is spreading rumours Perez' father claims Perez' due for Ferrari to replace Raikkonen perhaps even during this season :P
thought it was silly enough to put in the sillyseason topic.....
Hahaha, man, its enough yes. :mrgreen: