Flexiwings 2024

[chrisc90]

Tombazis has since confirmed the FIA "will not react until 2025 at the earliest, if necessary".

Explaining why to Auto, Motor und Sport, he added: "This would not only have an impact on aerodynamics but also on the structure of the parts.

"Even if we were to announce a new rule today, the teams would not be ready before Abu Dhabi.”

https://racingnews365.com/fia-explains- ... d-mercedes

This is a bad look...

If it has a issue on aerodynamics then so be it, if its against the rules then its against the rules.
Structure of the parts the teams can likely stiffen them up pretty quickly.

[peewon]

https://racingnews365.com/fia-explains- ... d-mercedes

This is a bad look...

If it has a issue on aerodynamics then so be it, if its against the rules then its against the rules.
Structure of the parts the teams can likely stiffen them up pretty quickly.

Its baffling to me that FIA is claiming teams cant come up with stiffer wings in 4 months. Having never cared about it in the past. It makes no sense and contradictory to the precedent. Now if you believe they like to see certain teams/drivers at the front then it makes sense again.

[bluechris]

This is a bad look...

If it has a issue on aerodynamics then so be it, if its against the rules then its against the rules.
Structure of the parts the teams can likely stiffen them up pretty quickly.

Its baffling to me that FIA is claiming teams cant come up with stiffer wings in 4 months. Having never cared about it in the past. It makes no sense and contradictory to the precedent. Now if you believe they like to see certain teams/drivers at the front then it makes sense again.

Well, if RB and Ferrari very soon bring this kind of wings then mark my words, FIA will intervene really fast as always.

[Vanja #66]

Here's a couple from Russel from Austria.





And one from the Dutch GP.



If you want any others from different races/teams, just give me a shout and ill see what I can find.

Cheers, that's perfect!

Austria clips show a fairly stable, but flexible wing. Quite similar behaviour to McLaren wing.

As far as I can tell (and I've watched both clips 3-4 times) the wing in Zandvoort is much more nervous, much more easily disturbed over any imperfecrion on track, not just kerbs. It's not quite "stable" in high speed corners, tends to flutter quite a bit in yaw. This kind of behaviour would be obscured from driver feel over one lap I think, while in the race the car could feel either like you can't push it consistently or like it changes balance through some of the corners inconsistently.

AR3, I think you should apply for Mercedes Head of QA

[scuderiabrandon]

Here's a couple from Russel from Austria.





And one from the Dutch GP.



If you want any others from different races/teams, just give me a shout and ill see what I can find.

Cheers, that's perfect!

Austria clips show a fairly stable, but flexible wing. Quite similar behaviour to McLaren wing.

As far as I can tell (and I've watched both clips 3-4 times) the wing in Zandvoort is much more nervous, much more easily disturbed over any imperfecrion on track, not just kerbs. It's not quite "stable" in high speed corners, tends to flutter quite a bit in yaw. This kind of behaviour would be obscured from driver feel over one lap I think, while in the race the car could feel either like you can't push it consistently or like it changes balance through some of the corners inconsistently.

AR3, I think you should apply for Mercedes Head of QA

He is following a car fairly close in Zandvoort. There is some footage out there of cars having this fluttering in the wake of another car, once they move out to overtake or whatever the fluttering settles.

Edit: although it is not from the nose cam, you can see the aggressive fluttering whilst Piastri follows Sainz. It settles, ones he moves into clean air. You are just going to have to eagle eye it through the front suspension but I think it is quite obvious.

[AR3-GP]

He is following a car fairly close in Zandvoort. There is some footage out there of cars having this fluttering in the wake of another car, once they move out to overtake or whatever the fluttering settles.

Edit: although it is not from the nose cam, you can see the aggressive fluttering whilst Piastri follows Sainz. It settles, ones he moves into clean air. You are just going to have to eagle eye it through the front suspension but I think it is quite obvious.

Any wing can be made to flutter if the driving force is strong enough but the wings have differing elasticity (clearly), so some may start to flutter more easily than others.

I don't think it's a coincidence that everywhere you look, the Mercedes wing seems to flutter more than others. I doubt it's intentional. As Vanja said, this would be terrible for the floor. It's more likely a side of effect of achieving the flexibility that they seek in a different (and less ideal) way to that of Mclaren.

[Vanja #66]

He is following a car fairly close in Zandvoort. There is some footage out there of cars having this fluttering in the wake of another car, once they move out to overtake or whatever the fluttering settles.

He's also following another car in 2nd clip from Austria (the one on streamable) and it doesn't have such effects. I think those two clips are fairly comparable

[Farnborough]

A fairly simplified overview of practical inspection and control of this area here



Need to go to link in avoiding copyright issues

[Seanspeed]

Red Bull were always quick to adapt to stronger front wing deflection tests back when FIA was trying to clamp down on them for basically this same thing in the early 2010's. The idea that teams would need four months to adapt is absolutely insane nonsense.

It should also be no coincidence that Mclaren and Mercedes have the strongest front ends on the grid after having developed these significantly flexing wings.

My only thing is that Ferrari and Red Bull should have followed suit long ago instead of relying on the FIA, which has taken months to actually address this, to somehow rule in their favor in order to regain competitiveness. I know that's always a gamble in the cost cap era, but there were pretty clear signs even early on the FIA was not going to take this situation that seriously when the races were becoming more close at the front.

[scuderiabrandon]

He is following a car fairly close in Zandvoort. There is some footage out there of cars having this fluttering in the wake of another car, once they move out to overtake or whatever the fluttering settles.

He's also following another car in 2nd clip from Austria (the one on streamable) and it doesn't have such effects. I think those two clips are fairly comparable

Yeah, he is in DRS range at Zandvoort, I'd hazard a guess around 2 seconds behind in Austria.

[scuderiabrandon]

He is following a car fairly close in Zandvoort. There is some footage out there of cars having this fluttering in the wake of another car, once they move out to overtake or whatever the fluttering settles.

Edit: although it is not from the nose cam, you can see the aggressive fluttering whilst Piastri follows Sainz. It settles, ones he moves into clean air. You are just going to have to eagle eye it through the front suspension but I think it is quite obvious.

Any wing can be made to flutter if the driving force is strong enough but the wings have differing elasticity (clearly), so some may start to flutter more easily than others.

I don't think it's a coincidence that everywhere you look, the Mercedes wing seems to flutter more than others. I doubt it's intentional. As Vanja said, this would be terrible for the floor. It's more likely a side of effect of achieving the flexibility that they seek in a different (and less ideal) way to that of Mclaren.

I'm not saying it is or is not made to flutter, that's not my argument. I'm pointing out that comparing those two clips may not be a good comparison due to the proximity of the cars he is following. Vanja's words were the Austria one look like a stable flexible wing, at Zandvoort much more nervous. I'm simply pointing out the nuance between the 2 clips.

It's more likely a side of effect of achieving the flexibility that they seek in a different (and less ideal) way to that of Mclaren.

That's why I attached the clip of Mclaren. You can see how bad the fluttering gets behind another car, evben with a supposedly stable flexible wing. I totally agree that a wing that flutter so much has to bring some inconsistencies. After all, the front wing is also a flow conditioner as much as it is a tool to create local downforce.

[Vanja #66]

A summary article about the recent troubles of W15

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... /10651688/

“I think we are able to extract a single lap, which is in principle good news,” explained Wolff. “But then the balance isn’t in a way good enough to keep the tyres happy for a race.

“That has been the topic since Zandvoort. It has been more on the edge, more difficult to find the right balance.”

***

The squad has continued to analyse it during the Zandvoort and Monza weekends, and is convinced that it is providing the extra downforce hoped for.

However, it is not yet sure if the new design has contributed to the W15 having a less ideal balance, which is making Russell and Hamilton less comfortable in the car.

I'm almost certain excessive front wing flap flutter is one of the main contributors to this latest imbalance

[AR3-GP]

A summary article about the recent troubles of W15

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... /10651688/

“I think we are able to extract a single lap, which is in principle good news,” explained Wolff. “But then the balance isn’t in a way good enough to keep the tyres happy for a race.

“That has been the topic since Zandvoort. It has been more on the edge, more difficult to find the right balance.”

***

The squad has continued to analyse it during the Zandvoort and Monza weekends, and is convinced that it is providing the extra downforce hoped for.

However, it is not yet sure if the new design has contributed to the W15 having a less ideal balance, which is making Russell and Hamilton less comfortable in the car.

I'm almost certain excessive front wing flap flutter is one of the main contributors to this latest imbalance

It also supports the theory that balance issues lead to tire degradation.

[Vanja #66]

It also supports the theory that balance issues lead to tire degradation.

They always do, especially with Pirellis. If tyres had bigger window, it would have been less obvious, but it would still be there

[scuderiabrandon]

It also supports the theory that balance issues lead to tire degradation.

They always do, especially with Pirellis. If tyres had bigger window, it would have been less obvious, but it would still be there

The only people who argued against this though were the fans that had to look past the fact to push an agenda. Especially those that enjoy deifying the drivers. I never really though of it as a “theory”.