Renault race-fixing at Singapore 2008

[timbo]

"FOTA today express concern at the leakage of information, which may or may not be relevant to the FIA current enquiry into the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix. All parties to the dispute should have the right to a fair hearing carried out in private and not in the public arena, which is producing adverse publicity damaging to the corporate image and credibility of Formula One. FOTA believes that differences within the sport should be handled in a professional manner and condemns the habit of intentionally releasing confidential documents to influence public opinion. Confidential documents should remain under the control of the competent authority."

A serious point. Regarding this leakage, do you think it is on purpose? For quite a while there were leaks of documents that are supposedly confidential, like Mosley's letters to teams and such.

[Pup]

Usually leaks occur to sway public opinion, but my guess in this case is that this stuff has been leaked to sway testimony - Pat Symonds' in particular. Take a look at this summary of the stewards' report to the WMSC:

http://axisofoversteer.com/blog/documen ... f%20PK.pdf

One thing for sure is that Symonds comes across as sitting rather uncomfortably in the middle of everything. Perhaps the thinking is that if he knows what a pickle he's in, he'll be more likely to testify about Flavio's involvement, which I suspect is what Max really wants.

[SZ]

A serious point. Regarding this leakage, do you think it is on purpose? For quite a while there were leaks of documents that are supposedly confidential, like Mosley's letters to teams and such.

Controlled spin is controlled leaking

[xpensive]

When considering who might be behind all this and why, I think we should consider who has the most to gain from Briatore being hung?
Carlos Gohsn of course, he desperately need an credible reason to pull the plug on this money-burner called F1, why the team disgracing the Renault name would be the perfect xcuse.

[SZ]

When considering who might be behind all this and why, I think we should consider who has the most to gain from Briatore being hung?
Carlos Gohsn of course, he desperately need an credible reason to pull the plug on this money-burner called F1, why the team disgracing the Renault name would be the perfect xcuse.

Wrong. You'd be after the Master AXe grinder

[xpensive]

In collusion with the EvilTwins and the Scientologists of course.

[Harrelson]

This will be solved when the FIA enforce a worldwide ban on Piquet junior.

Just because someone tells you to kill someone doesn't excuse your actions. I cant believe this. That backbiting little snitch will do the same dirty tricks on another team if he is allowed racing. No integrity at all

BTW, Massa must raging at his fellow Brazilian.

[bill shoe]

So far though, there's nothing of the sort, and anything that does get handed down is based on political motivations.

I'll half agree. The FIA has a bizzare and politically motivated track record about what they decide to investigate or care about. However, putting the FIA issue aside, there is clear public evidence that Pat Symmonds at a minimum knew about the intentional crash. For example, here is a transcript of Pat Symonds being interviewed about the situation:

FIA adviser: Because, just to be absolutely clear here,
what Nelson Piquet Jr. has said is that at that meeting it
was you that asked him to have the crash deliberately.

Symonds: I can’t answer you.

FIA adviser: Can I say that if, Mr. Symonds, you’d been put
in the position where you were made to ask Mr. Piquet Jr.
to crash, it’s much better. It would be much better for you
in the long term to tell these stewards, to hear that today.

Symonds: I fully understand that.

FIA adviser: Yes.

Symonds: I have no intention of lying to you. I have not
lied to you, but I have reserved my position just a little.

FIA adviser: And you’re aware that the stewards may
draw conclusions from your unwillingness to assist them
in relation to what went on in that meeting?

Symonds: I would expect them to. I would absolutely
expect that.

FIA adviser: I think I haven’t got any further questions.

Symonds has the legal right to not answer etc., but is there any real doubt that he knew about it? I can't think of any plausible scenario where he is completley innocent, then he voluntarily participates at an FIA questioning, then he declines to answer simple questions, acknowledges he is "reserving" his position, and acknowledges that he expects his lack of response to be held against him.

If you think Pat Symonds might be completly innocent then I request your participation on my jury after I rob a bank.

[Pup]

Yes, at the moment everything is sitting clearly in Symonds' lap. That's why I think that these leaks have been made to drive that very point home with him. So I strongly suspect that he'll submit additional testimony to the WMSC this coming week, implicating Briatore in the scheme and getting some sort of indemnity in return.

I saw another rumor floating around the internets this morning, that if Briatore were to be kicked out of the sport, he might be forced to sell his football team stake as well, due to rules there about who can and can't own a team. That introduces the interesting twist that Briatore's partner, Bernie, might in fact benefit financially in some way from all this - assuming he has some reason to rid himself of Flavio's partnership. That's all a stretch, though, if you ask me. Still, more wood for the fire I suppose.

[Shaddock]

Piquet hit the wall with the throttle still 100% open

"The stewards did not consider the telemetry alone to be conclusive evidence that Piquet intentionally crashed, but taken together with his admission caused them to find support for the admission and how he had caused the crash"


FIA adviser: There’s quite.... There’s a more significant wheelspin recorded here (in Piquet’s traces than Alonso had experienced earlier in the race). You’ll see what has been marked by the (FIA) technical department as a rapid increase in throttle pedal (application).
Symonds: Mmm hmm.
FIA adviser: There, is on the throttle. There’s a slight releasing of the throttle as the wheels start to spin, but when the (wheel)spin is at its greatest, there appears to be a reapplication of the throttle at almost 100 percent.
Symonds: Yes.
FIA adviser: I put it to you, Mr. Symonds, that that’s a very unusual piece of telemetry that would suggest that this may have been a deliberate crash.
Symonds: I would agree it’s unusual.
FIA adviser: Would it suggest to you a deliberate crash?
Symonds: I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a deliberate crash, so I.... It’s very unusual data.
FIA adviser: Counter-intuitive for a driver to put his foot full on the throttle when he’s in a deep (wheel)spin like that, Mr. Symonds?
Symonds: It is. yes, when he has that much wheelspin, it’s counter-intuitive.

Symonds is up to his neck in it

[SZ]

I see your point bill shoe, but that could also be PS not wanting to state anything that could incriminate him without legal counsel. Given that it's clear someone mentioned crashing the car for a race advantage before the very event actually occurred, I'd imaging PS or anyone in his position making any statement without extremely careful consideration - usually in consultation with legal representatives - opens a door to self-incrimination.

Granted, not saying anything says a lot too, but it's likely the lesser of two evils.

I couldn't guarantee you PS is completely innocent, but for the purposes of a trial he's innocent until proven guilty, and we're yet to see definitive proof. This said, the circumstantial evidence is building, and fast, which is likely enough to force some sort of penalty out of those with semi-vested interests that preside over such judgements.

It'll be interesting to see what Renault comes back with. As it is, if this was aimed at Briatore it seems to have missed its target... for the moment.

[vall]

They should also look at the telemetry of the many other NP crashes, right? When the rare wheels were spinning, NP did back off the throttle. What about if he mis-judged, thought that was enough to get things under control, and then pushed again and completely lost it?

[vall]

he was told to push, right? he did and he lost it, may be as simple as that

[jddh1]

I think if Symmonds cooperates, he will go walking free. I think they want Flav's head for sure. I don't think they want Renault out at all. I think they'll get Flav out, and "forgive" Renault and let Symmonds run the team.
Piquet will also be "forgiven" for cooperating but no one will hire him because of this for a while. I still think he has some talent but he was not in the right environment. He needs for find a small team if he wants to make it back to F1. Or go to Indy.

So Max goes on saying to reporters that Piquet Jr has immunity for cooperating. So part of my theory so far seems correct. Let's see how it plays out.

Initially, I thought it was just a cry over spilled milk from Nelsinho or perhaps I did not want to believe this race fix. However, with all these details coming out, I see how dirty this entire mess is. It's a shame.

[timbo]

I see how dirty this entire mess is. It's a shame.

Fact is it can't NOT be dirty. From the moment the word from Piquet made into the public domain --- did hit the fan.