and he is more mature and level headed than other drivers in his age group, and he has bullet proof speed. 
No it's called immaturity and a total lack of race craft.It's called racing
So you want to see a dull procession then?strad wrote:Andrew wroteNo it's called immaturity and a total lack of race craft.It's called racing
Talk about missing the point - racing is not ramming other cars; defending is not about hitting the other guy or forcing him to swerve and abort the overtake; and this example was being used to show how Vettel is getting into a habit of bullying other drivers, swerving at them and pushing them about the race track. That's not skill, it's arrogance and petulance. It's not entertainment, instead it deprives fans of entertainment unless it goes wrong. When Button overtook Hamilton neither driver felt the need to run the other off the road, so instead we were treated to them going side by side through three corners and ultimately saw two passes.andrew wrote:So you want to see a dull procession then?strad wrote:Andrew wroteNo it's called immaturity and a total lack of race craft.It's called racing
Actually you provided one time stamp and not five for the separate actions you claimed can be seen.myurr wrote:Well I did that earlier but never mind. Here's a handy pictorial guide.WhiteBlue wrote:I actually can't see this on the tape. Please provide time stamps for your five points to allow me a review of your assessment.
Funny how if you re-read my earlier post you can see five separate time stamps mentioned. 1:23, 1:26, 1:27, 1:29 and 1:30. As the whole clip is only few seconds long it seems silly to demand time stamps.WhiteBlue wrote:Actually you provided one time stamp and not five for the separate actions you claimed can be seen.
Sorry myurr, to frustrate your effort but half your subtitles are pure fantasy. I will not go to the effort of commenting them one by one because it would become tedious. I can only see one move on the straight until Hamilton commits to go down the outside. Hamilton never even came close to making that pass stick and getting ahead of Vettel. In this case Vettel owned the racing line why he had to steer right at the point were he finally did that. That is not swerving on the straight!
Oops, I never went back to your very first post of the video. So I missed your time stamps there. Sorry for making that false claim. Anyway, the video cuts to different perspectives which may overlap actually. Who knows if this is really the original race footage or something pasted together by the person making the clip. As far as I can make it out Vettel touches the left white line in apex of the last corner before the straight and heads out on the racing line. He makes one move back left which he is entitled to. When Hamilton is committed to the inside Vettel needs to come right again to make it to the racing line for the next left hander. That is ok in my book. Hamilton evades pretty severe because he knows that Vettel owns the line and he would be penalized for a collision.myurr wrote:Funny how if you re-read my earlier post you can see five separate time stamps mentioned. 1:23, 1:26, 1:27, 1:29 and 1:30. As the whole clip is only few seconds long it seems silly to demand time stamps.
I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one - to me it is beyond doubt in that video that Vettel first moves to the right following the racing line, then turns left to cover the inside line, then swerves right causing Hamilton to have to take avoiding action. The reason Hamilton didn't make it past is that by swerving he lost momentum and it's likely he was distracted thus missed his braking point. As Button demonstrated later it is possible to overtake by going round the outside despite being pretty much level on corner entry.
But anyway, what it neatly demonstrates is that even with video evidence it is possible to have wildly different interpretations of events so hopefully you'll stop treating regurgitated team press briefings regarding Webber and his team as indisputable fact.
Well Hamilton did make a complaint at the time, he was quoted on the radio as saying 'That was really dangerous guys', and don't forget that Vettel wasn't penalised for the Webber collision either. If Vettel was just following the racing line or was moving within regulations why would Hamilton make that statement? He obviously feels that he had to take avoiding action.WhiteBlue wrote:I fail to see how you can hang a tag on Vettel for a move that has not been criticized by race control. If this was as outrageous as you say Hamilton surely would have complained and the stewards would have spoken with the drivers.
I have nothing against German sources, my problem lies with the simple fact that by definition there is a sole source for all those stories - the Red Bull team. After the past weeks events I have a very strong distrust for anything said or leaked by the team.WhiteBlue wrote:You can think about my German sources whatever you like they will not have a different quality to any English based statements. I agree to disagree on the issue because the rest of the season will give plenty of points to both sides of this debate. All we have to do is wait and see as the season unfolds. We should pick this issue up at a later time.
I fail to see how this is contributing to the debate. Your post, Strad is nothing but a personal attack. You will not make brownie points with that kind of contributions. "Attack the post, not the poster" is the ethos of this site.strad wrote:I see that some of you don't have experience with WhiteBlue or whatever he's calling himself now,,,Somehow in his mind, IF he says it,,it becomes fact and truth..No need to confuse things with facts,,he'll just make up some more and then provide a graph and twisted stats to show he is right.
Well, I just got you to adjust your statement on the historic price of the USGP. I do change my opinion as well when I get presented with compelling points. People who post more often on this site know that. I tend not to give up positions in disputes with people who threaten me or constantly insult me. I probably do not need to mention a certain Australian CanAm fan we have both known for several years.strad wrote:trying discuss anything with you...as you point out, devolves into nothing but a debate...no discussion only debate..often heated debate.
But then,, how often do ya see anyone on any of these boards stop and say..."Whoa...I think you may be right...Gee I completely change my mind"?
