Ferrari F138

[timbo]

It might be that vorticles reduce drag...

Aren't vortices generally a by-product of drag?

Vortices can energize the flow on the high A-o-A surfaces and help to keep it attached which in effect reduces drag. So while vortices are indeed store energy (=drag) they can reduce the net drag when the bigger picture is viewed.

[sucof]

It might be that vorticles reduce drag...

Aren't vortices generally a by-product of drag?

Vortices can energize the flow on the high A-o-A surfaces and help to keep it attached which in effect reduces drag. So while vortices are indeed store energy (=drag) they can reduce the net drag when the bigger picture is viewed.

Thanks for the viable info!

[heimana]

No cascades

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BTTzOX9IMAAzIn2.jpg:large

and no deflectors?

[shelly]

Until we did not see a video of this, we do not know nothing, since these pictures are only a 1/1000th second of truth.
Also I am not sure if a vortex hitting a tire is a bad thing or not, it might be that that produces lower drag.

I don't think so.

Hm This is not very constructive.
And think about it: They always try to give wings as little turbulence as they can, so wings work as effective as possible. So more turbulence less wing effectiveness might equal to less drag too. It might be that vorticles reduce drag...

Yes they could reduce drag becuse of lower pressure on the fornt face of the tyre. But porbably this is not the case - the perspective is tricky.

[henra]

Also I am not sure if a vortex hitting a tire is a bad thing or not, it might be that that produces lower drag.

Nope, it won't.
I can't fathom any benefit from this. However, it might have been a very brief transitory state. If indeed it remains that way for a longer time I'm quite sure it is not desirable.

[trinidefender]

Creating vortices takes a large amount of energy therefore creating a large amount of drag. If the vortex isn't designed to do something specific then most likely the smaller and weaker you can make it the less drag you will create.

For anybody confused how these vortecies help airflow stay attached to a wing then do some research on Leading Edge Root Extensions. Used most notably on the F/A-18 Hornet/super hornet attack aircraft.

[henra]

Yes they could reduce drag becuse of lower pressure on the fornt face of the tyre. But porbably this is not the case - the perspective is tricky.

Even if they might achieve a marginally lower local pressure in front of a small part of the tyre the vortex will obstruct flow along the coke bottle which is otherwise allowing significant pressure recovery there. The net effect will be surely negative.

Moreover as @trinidefender has pointed out it did cost significant drag to generate the vortex in the first place.

[sucof]

Interesting discussion about vortex, great

[turbof1]

It is all about aero efficiency. If the drag penalty is lower then for instance a bigger AoA, then you could go for it and just reduce wing angle.

[timbo]

Yes they could reduce drag becuse of lower pressure on the fornt face of the tyre. But porbably this is not the case - the perspective is tricky.

Even if they might achieve a marginally lower local pressure in front of a small part of the tyre the vortex will obstruct flow along the coke bottle which is otherwise allowing significant pressure recovery there. The net effect will be surely negative.

Moreover as @trinidefender has pointed out it did cost significant drag to generate the vortex in the first place.

We don't know the properties of the flow around coke bottle. Most likely it is very complicated from interaction of tyre, coanda-exhaust the flow around sidepods. The vortex generation indeed creates drag, but if it has some positive effect on the area, it could well diminish the net drag. Another possibility is it helps produce more downforce.
It is not the first picture where intensive vortices are seen coming from the front of the car.

As was mentioned by trinidefender F/A-18 is using LERX to produce vortices, but many more fighter aircrafts use same strategy: F-16, F-22, EuroFighter, Rafale, Su-27 and Mig-29 etc. It is known and used from the late-60s/mid-70s.

Here's an example of Su-35 fighter


The vortices are designed to keep the flow over the wings attached and the also energies flow over rudders, thus making aircraft more stable in yaw at high A-o-A.

[Kiril Varbanov]

Close up of the front wing initially put on the car:

[emmepi27]

I have made a comparision between new and old wing (Spa) with foto of Tobias:
the main plane seems the same to me. Only the flap is different (upper flap and vertical strakes too).

[majki2111]

I have made a comparision between new and old wing (Spa) with foto of Tobias:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BTY7N8nCcAEi1VG.jpg

It is huge difference, but weather says it will be rain on Saturday and Sunday, so hope Ferrari is thinking on that.

[stefan_]

Italy 2013 - Thursday (05.09.2013)




via AMuS

[Chuckjr]

Hello James Allison!