2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

[e30ernest]

Remember 2019? This could all play out just like that.

[mkay]

On a side note, there is zero, and I mean zero question, that Merc is capable of reaching Q3.

Some of the claims are getting a bit sensationalist.

Been trolling Mercedes all week. Easiest just to ignore.

At first I thought it was just honest skepticism, but some of the claims made today are a bridge too far.

I didn't say they wouldn't, I said they'd struggle relatively speaking (compared to last year for instance).

Fortunately for Merc, there are only 3 GP in the next 7 weeks, which gives them plenty of time to come up with solutions to their current problems.

Respectfully, struggling to make it to Q3 is far-fetched enough, in and of itself. *If* Red Bull are genuinely ahead right now, it's still close between them and Mercedes. Those 2 teams are in a class of their own.

but if the race was today, Merc would struggle to make Q3 which is flat out embarassing considering they used to lap midfield cars at a canter a little more than 3 months ago!

I don't know what you've seen that has led you to making the struggling to make Q3 claims.

To be honest, your guess is just as good as mine, and as good as Marcin Budkowski. Nobody knows what is going on at Mercedes, and we won't know for sure until they hit the track again in 10 days' time.

Reports are already coming out that they are suffering from flow detachment at the rear and a overheating gearbox. If this is true, (and that's a big if), given restricted CFD time and homologation of certain parts, they can't just spend their way out of it this season, unlike prior seasons. Their ability to get themselves out of this will largely depend on the severity of the issues, IMO.

[SiLo]

It honestly looked liked a tyre issue more than an aero issue. They were probably still finding the right aero balance but with issues switching on the rear tyres on a rear limited track, it just compounds and makes things worse.

I'm almost remit to make a judgement until we get to a non-rear-limited track and see where people are. There aren't too many tracks on the calendar that are rear limited to it makes sense to actually focus on a base setup that leans more towards front limited or non limited tracks.

[Just_a_fan]

Reports are already coming out that they are suffering from flow detachment at the rear and a overheating gearbox. If this is true, (and that's a big if), given restricted CFD time and homologation of certain parts, they can't just spend their way out of it this season, unlike prior seasons. Their ability to get themselves out of this will largely depend on the severity of the issues, IMO.

Overheating gearbox? They had a gear selection issue on day 1. After that was changed out, their gearbox was OK.

As for flow separation, do you have a reference/link? It would be interesting to see images if the rear wing with flow viz on it.

[holeindalip]

It honestly looked liked a tyre issue more than an aero issue. They were probably still finding the right aero balance but with issues switching on the rear tyres on a rear limited track, it just compounds and makes things worse.

I'm almost remit to make a judgement until we get to a non-rear-limited track and see where people are. There aren't too many tracks on the calendar that are rear limited to it makes sense to actually focus on a base setup that leans more towards front limited or non limited tracks.

My thoughts exactly... it’s the same every year, they put their heads down and in two weeks time will blitz the field while saying we thought it was a lot closer. This isn’t Mercedes fastest track either...

[mkay]

Reports are already coming out that they are suffering from flow detachment at the rear and a overheating gearbox. If this is true, (and that's a big if), given restricted CFD time and homologation of certain parts, they can't just spend their way out of it this season, unlike prior seasons. Their ability to get themselves out of this will largely depend on the severity of the issues, IMO.

Overheating gearbox? They had a gear selection issue on day 1. After that was changed out, their gearbox was OK.

As for flow separation, do you have a reference/link? It would be interesting to see images if the rear wing with flow viz on it.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-me ... e/5729889/

Motorsport IT (Franco Nugnes) is reporting that they have run the engine massively detuned (which is supported by the top speed they've achieved throughout the weekend) because of that problem; supposedly cooling solution at the back is too extreme and the gearbox is overheating. AMR and Merc have the most aggressive (smallest) outlets at the back which seems to jive with this.

Brackley's team took aerodynamics to the extreme to recover the lost load with the new FIA rules. The gearbox overheats from lack of cooling and breaks down. To avoid trouble, the gearshifts were slowed down and the engine was deflated.

I can't find a link to the flow separation claims, but either way it's been well reported they have an unstable/unpredictable rear end.

[NathanOlder]

Reports are already coming out that they are suffering from flow detachment at the rear and a overheating gearbox. If this is true, (and that's a big if), given restricted CFD time and homologation of certain parts, they can't just spend their way out of it this season, unlike prior seasons. Their ability to get themselves out of this will largely depend on the severity of the issues, IMO.

Overheating gearbox? They had a gear selection issue on day 1. After that was changed out, their gearbox was OK.

As for flow separation, do you have a reference/link? It would be interesting to see images if the rear wing with flow viz on it.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-me ... e/5729889/

Motorsport IT (Franco Nugnes) is reporting that they have run the engine massively detuned (which is supported by the top speed they've achieved throughout the weekend) because of that problem; supposedly cooling solution at the back is too extreme and the gearbox is overheating. AMR and Merc have the most aggressive (smallest) outlets at the back which seems to jive with this.

Brackley's team took aerodynamics to the extreme to recover the lost load with the new FIA rules. The gearbox overheats from lack of cooling and breaks down. To avoid trouble, the gearshifts were slowed down and the engine was deflated.

I can't find a link to the flow separation claims, but either way it's been well reported they have an unstable/unpredictable rear end.

It could be believable if it didnt include the gearbox overheating. As others have said, Bottas did 1 slow instalation lap, then they changed the gearbox and ran problem free with the gearbox as far as we know.

[Just_a_fan]

Reports are already coming out that they are suffering from flow detachment at the rear and a overheating gearbox. If this is true, (and that's a big if), given restricted CFD time and homologation of certain parts, they can't just spend their way out of it this season, unlike prior seasons. Their ability to get themselves out of this will largely depend on the severity of the issues, IMO.

Overheating gearbox? They had a gear selection issue on day 1. After that was changed out, their gearbox was OK.

As for flow separation, do you have a reference/link? It would be interesting to see images if the rear wing with flow viz on it.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-me ... e/5729889/

Motorsport IT (Franco Nugnes) is reporting that they have run the engine massively detuned (which is supported by the top speed they've achieved throughout the weekend) because of that problem; supposedly cooling solution at the back is too extreme and the gearbox is overheating. AMR and Merc have the most aggressive (smallest) outlets at the back which seems to jive with this.

Brackley's team took aerodynamics to the extreme to recover the lost load with the new FIA rules. The gearbox overheats from lack of cooling and breaks down. To avoid trouble, the gearshifts were slowed down and the engine was deflated.

I can't find a link to the flow separation claims, but either way it's been well reported they have an unstable/unpredictable rear end.

I doubt anyone in the team will have told him that so it sounds like a bit of hand waving rumour.

I guess we'll find out soon enough.

[mkay]

Overheating gearbox? They had a gear selection issue on day 1. After that was changed out, their gearbox was OK.

As for flow separation, do you have a reference/link? It would be interesting to see images if the rear wing with flow viz on it.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-me ... e/5729889/

Motorsport IT (Franco Nugnes) is reporting that they have run the engine massively detuned (which is supported by the top speed they've achieved throughout the weekend) because of that problem; supposedly cooling solution at the back is too extreme and the gearbox is overheating. AMR and Merc have the most aggressive (smallest) outlets at the back which seems to jive with this.

Brackley's team took aerodynamics to the extreme to recover the lost load with the new FIA rules. The gearbox overheats from lack of cooling and breaks down. To avoid trouble, the gearshifts were slowed down and the engine was deflated.

I can't find a link to the flow separation claims, but either way it's been well reported they have an unstable/unpredictable rear end.

It could be believable if it didnt include the gearbox overheating. As others have said, Bottas did 1 slow instalation lap, then they changed the gearbox and ran problem free with the gearbox as far as we know.

They've also run their engine more detuned than anybody else, and that includes Williams and McLaren who, coincidentally, do not use Merc gearboxes. And by they, I meant both Merc and AMR, who share similar rear ends (gearbox + aero) and have encountered said issues.

So we don't know for sure that the problem is fully behind them. Put that on the list of things to be verified in a fortnight.

[basti313]

Overheating gearbox? They had a gear selection issue on day 1. After that was changed out, their gearbox was OK.

As for flow separation, do you have a reference/link? It would be interesting to see images if the rear wing with flow viz on it.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-me ... e/5729889/

Motorsport IT (Franco Nugnes) is reporting that they have run the engine massively detuned (which is supported by the top speed they've achieved throughout the weekend) because of that problem; supposedly cooling solution at the back is too extreme and the gearbox is overheating. AMR and Merc have the most aggressive (smallest) outlets at the back which seems to jive with this.

Brackley's team took aerodynamics to the extreme to recover the lost load with the new FIA rules. The gearbox overheats from lack of cooling and breaks down. To avoid trouble, the gearshifts were slowed down and the engine was deflated.

I can't find a link to the flow separation claims, but either way it's been well reported they have an unstable/unpredictable rear end.

I doubt anyone in the team will have told him that so it sounds like a bit of hand waving rumour.

I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Yes, plus the gearbox is not cooled by air. Even if it was an issue, they just need to get a bit more air to the oil cooler in the sidepot which means closing or opening the cooling as usual. I guess this topic will just vanish. The track temp was very high, crosswinds, etc...on a normal weekend in Europe this will be more than ok. I am even asking myself if they did not run a cooling solution that was designed for a usual European race as more races will be in colder conditions to get more relevant setup and aero data.

[LM10]

Overheating gearbox? They had a gear selection issue on day 1. After that was changed out, their gearbox was OK.

As for flow separation, do you have a reference/link? It would be interesting to see images if the rear wing with flow viz on it.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-me ... e/5729889/

Motorsport IT (Franco Nugnes) is reporting that they have run the engine massively detuned (which is supported by the top speed they've achieved throughout the weekend) because of that problem; supposedly cooling solution at the back is too extreme and the gearbox is overheating. AMR and Merc have the most aggressive (smallest) outlets at the back which seems to jive with this.

Brackley's team took aerodynamics to the extreme to recover the lost load with the new FIA rules. The gearbox overheats from lack of cooling and breaks down. To avoid trouble, the gearshifts were slowed down and the engine was deflated.

I can't find a link to the flow separation claims, but either way it's been well reported they have an unstable/unpredictable rear end.

I doubt anyone in the team will have told him that so it sounds like a bit of hand waving rumour.

I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Franco Nugnes is the king of rumors and totally unfounded claims.

[Just_a_fan]

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-me ... e/5729889/

Motorsport IT (Franco Nugnes) is reporting that they have run the engine massively detuned (which is supported by the top speed they've achieved throughout the weekend) because of that problem; supposedly cooling solution at the back is too extreme and the gearbox is overheating. AMR and Merc have the most aggressive (smallest) outlets at the back which seems to jive with this.



I can't find a link to the flow separation claims, but either way it's been well reported they have an unstable/unpredictable rear end.

I doubt anyone in the team will have told him that so it sounds like a bit of hand waving rumour.

I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Franco Nugnes is the king of rumors and totally unfounded claims.

That's what I thought - I thought I recognised the name from various Ferrari "rumours".

[zibby43]

Courtesy of F1T member "LightningLewis"

I'm guessing the W12 we saw in Bahrain is not the W12 we will see in Bahrain.

[El Scorchio]

Courtesy of F1T member "LightningLewis"

I'm guessing the W12 we saw in Bahrain is not the W12 we will see in Bahrain.

https://i.ibb.co/Lzd9SfF/Screenshot-202 ... u-Tube.jpg

Was this posted after the test? The tokens thing is very intriguing. So many hints about it being obvious, but definitely nothing obvious on the car in the last few days.

[zibby43]

Courtesy of F1T member "LightningLewis"

I'm guessing the W12 we saw in Bahrain is not the W12 we will see in Bahrain.

https://i.ibb.co/Lzd9SfF/Screenshot-202 ... u-Tube.jpg

Was this posted after the test? The tokens thing is very intriguing. So many hints about it being obvious, but definitely nothing obvious on the car in the last few days.

Posted in the comment section of this video, which dropped today: