TD018 2023 - clampdown on flexible wings

[organic]

To a large extent it’s not their fault. This is why I don’t like budget cap. I feel like chassis redesigns should be allowed in season. Total waste of time otherwise.

McLaren have shown you can make >1s gains with in season development under the BC without a chassis redesign. The problem Ferrari and Merc made for themselves was being too committed to their guns with zeropod and inwash.. they gambled. Teams like McLaren did not gamble (in fact they made a very late switch in development direction) and they're reaping the reward half a season later.

[dialtone]

To a large extent it’s not their fault. This is why I don’t like budget cap. I feel like chassis redesigns should be allowed in season. Total waste of time otherwise.

McLaren have shown you can make >1s gains with in season development under the BC without a chassis redesign. The problem Ferrari and Merc made for themselves was being too committed to their guns with zeropod and inwash.. they gambled. Teams like McLaren did not gamble (in fact they made a very late switch in development direction) and they're reaping the reward half a season later.

Merc chassis was designed this year for the new concept that's why they could switch to it in-season. Ferrari and Merc aren't and need to wait a year.

Again... Not sure it's in the interest of the sport that RBR is effectively not developing the car and adding to next year budget all because Ferrari and Merc can't make real changes.

[AR3-GP]

To a large extent it’s not their fault. This is why I don’t like budget cap. I feel like chassis redesigns should be allowed in season. Total waste of time otherwise.

McLaren have shown you can make >1s gains with in season development under the BC without a chassis redesign. The problem Ferrari and Merc made for themselves was being too committed to their guns with zeropod and inwash.. they gambled. Teams like McLaren did not gamble (in fact they made a very late switch in development direction) and they're reaping the reward half a season later.

Merc chassis was designed this year for the new concept that's why they could switch to it in-season. Ferrari and Merc aren't and need to wait a year.

Again... Not sure it's in the interest of the sport that RBR is effectively not developing the car and adding to next year budget all because Ferrari and Merc can't make real changes.

Mclaren is on the up which was the point of these regulations. It doesn't have to be Merc and Ferrari that challenge RB.

[Stu]

[snip]

It might be slightly different panels for wing types/downforce levels, different tape application and varying lighting conditions but there's no real difference between them, at least in thickness, is there?

I'd personally reserve judgement and wait for the next race(s), they will run more DF and higher top speeds there, maybe i'll be able to grab some footage for them and other cars, it's a rarely used cam unfortunately.

Thank you @RZS10

I just caught a shot of GR63 from Q2…
https://share.icloud.com/photos/073kAI ... 2nwYbg6zpQ

When you compare it to views from earlier in the year it does look a bit ‘slapped on’ (as opposed to ‘carefully applied’. It could be lighting; but as you say, that exact view is a rare one. If you were looking to exploit the grey that was previously present (pre-TD018 clarification), it is exactly where you would tune the structure (and hide it in plain sight). [...]

Those are all from a recording i have from Baku (shadowplay from a 720p stream):
https://i.imgur.com/S1nDFUC.png
Still images 2/3 and 5/6 are a single frame apart and even there it can go from looking smooth to more pronounced i think, the edge looks round in some of them and angular in others, the round details are visible in some and invisible in others, my guess is that the (glossy) tape plays a big role in our perception, i'd be surprised if the team did not make sure that the surface is as smooth as possible.

I took a few screengrabs from the Q highlights on Youtube, there's less compression artifacting here which might make it look more pronounced compared to the pics above, i also added yours and imho it kinda is the same thing where it looks more or less like an afterthought depending on the lighting conditions:
https://i.imgur.com/puId8Xt.png

And to hammer the point home how visual effects can trick us into seeing things:
https://i.imgur.com/hPWpV7F.gif

It almost looks like a different nose, doesn't it?

Just as an image, not a gif - there's suddenly 'more' under the nose, but it's just artifacting in the shadow
https://i.imgur.com/AmWTaa8.png

And FW flex is back with a vengeance, also on the inner pieces (Singapore vs Suzuka):
https://i.imgur.com/CLH9sJk.gif
https://i.imgur.com/7eCJ89W.gif

Full:
https://i.imgur.com/8WBb8pr.gif
Compared to Zandvoort (same markers, i couldn't be arsed):
https://i.imgur.com/gaYWN5C.gif
From those two low speed/deflection:
https://i.imgur.com/3fvZ5Vg.gif
And high speed/deflection:
https://i.imgur.com/umaGma2.gif

Hardly any difference on some elements, looks like there's just a difference in flaps or wing level.

Awesome work @RZS10, worthy of an upvote!!

[dialtone]

McLaren have shown you can make >1s gains with in season development under the BC without a chassis redesign. The problem Ferrari and Merc made for themselves was being too committed to their guns with zeropod and inwash.. they gambled. Teams like McLaren did not gamble (in fact they made a very late switch in development direction) and they're reaping the reward half a season later.

Merc chassis was designed this year for the new concept that's why they could switch to it in-season. Ferrari and Merc aren't and need to wait a year.

Again... Not sure it's in the interest of the sport that RBR is effectively not developing the car and adding to next year budget all because Ferrari and Merc can't make real changes.

Mclaren is on the up which was the point of these regulations. It doesn't have to be Merc and Ferrari that challenge RB.

The more the merrier.

[mwillems]

To a large extent it’s not their fault. This is why I don’t like budget cap. I feel like chassis redesigns should be allowed in season. Total waste of time otherwise.

McLaren have shown you can make >1s gains with in season development under the BC without a chassis redesign. The problem Ferrari and Merc made for themselves was being too committed to their guns with zeropod and inwash.. they gambled. Teams like McLaren did not gamble (in fact they made a very late switch in development direction) and they're reaping the reward half a season later.

Merc chassis was designed this year for the new concept that's why they could switch to it in-season. Ferrari and Merc aren't and need to wait a year.

Again... Not sure it's in the interest of the sport that RBR is effectively not developing the car and adding to next year budget all because Ferrari and Merc can't make real changes.

The chassis didn't change for the new concept. The team spoke about this. It is sub optimal for this concept, but not incompatible. Crash testing was done and locked in when they changed direction.

There is time to be found from altering the chassis to better suit the Aero and its mechanical requirements

[organic]

A rear-wing failure just after they introduced regulations to limit component flexing especially at the nose and rear-wing with TD-018. It was also spotted that AMR had a sensor mounted to the rear of the car where the wing attaches to the chassis; this is something they're clearly worried about.



I remember back in 2021 the flexi-wing rules were introduced at the French GP and then RB suffered DRS and rear-wing failures later in the season such as at Mexico where they almost ran out of rear-wings.

I don't think it's just a coincidence

[AR3-GP]

A rear-wing failure just after they introduced regulations to limit component flexing especially at the nose and rear-wing with TD-018. It was also spotted that AMR had a sensor mounted to the rear of the car where the wing attaches to the chassis; this is something they're clearly worried about.

https://i.imgur.com/osa76u6.png

I remember back in 2021 the flexi-wing rules were introduced at the French GP and then RB suffered DRS and rear-wing failures later in the season such as at Mexico where they almost ran out of rear-wings.

I don't think it's just a coincidence

I concur, unfortunately this team has been absolutely hammered by the TDs. Their loss of pace is obvious.

[Sieper]

Yes, agreed, it does seem AMR is hurt the most, so their sudden gain beginning of season wasn’t totally genuine.

I do have to say, all teams are bending and twisting. Still. This is very hard to govern.

[chrisc90]

Does anyone other than AMR seem to be caught out by this TD?

[AR3-GP]

Yes, agreed, it does seem AMR is hurt the most, so their sudden gain beginning of season wasn’t totally genuine.

I do have to say, all teams are bending and twisting. Still. This is very hard to govern.

Which is why I feel bad for Aston. This is an arbitrary witch hunt.

[basti313]

Yes, agreed, it does seem AMR is hurt the most, so their sudden gain beginning of season wasn’t totally genuine.

I do have to say, all teams are bending and twisting. Still. This is very hard to govern.

Which is why I feel bad for Aston. This is an arbitrary witch hunt.

No. It is about putting some rubber or similar into places where it does not belong...
It is not about parts on which a person can stand on without bending and at 300kph they start bending because of the huge forces. It is about engineered bending solutions, so this is different.

I agree that it hit Aston. We may also see more next race, I am still not sure why Ferrari came back into the game.

[AR3-GP]

Yes, agreed, it does seem AMR is hurt the most, so their sudden gain beginning of season wasn’t totally genuine.

I do have to say, all teams are bending and twisting. Still. This is very hard to govern.

Which is why I feel bad for Aston. This is an arbitrary witch hunt.

No. It is about putting some rubber or similar into places where it does not belong...
It is not about parts on which a person can stand on without bending and at 300kph they start bending because of the huge forces. It is about engineered bending solutions, so this is different.

I agree that it hit Aston. We may also see more next race, I am still not sure why Ferrari came back into the game.

fair point.

[KimiRai]

Yes, agreed, it does seem AMR is hurt the most, so their sudden gain beginning of season wasn’t totally genuine.

I do have to say, all teams are bending and twisting. Still. This is very hard to govern.

Which is why I feel bad for Aston. This is an arbitrary witch hunt.

It's the consequence of being a team that has brought multiple new things to the table since 2022, sometimes you push the envelope too much. They'll be back.

[Sieper]

Yes, agreed, it does seem AMR is hurt the most, so their sudden gain beginning of season wasn’t totally genuine.

I do have to say, all teams are bending and twisting. Still. This is very hard to govern.

Which is why I feel bad for Aston. This is an arbitrary witch hunt.

It's the consequence of being a team that has brought multiple new things to the table since 2022, sometimes you push the envelope too much. They'll be back.

And that is also a good point.