McLaren MP4-12C

[Just_a_fan]

'The faster it goes the more of a supercar it is'?
I think the faster it goes the more like a vacuum cleaner it looks and the less relevent it becomes.

Supercars are not relevant. That's the bloody point. Exactly the same as motor racing. Neither has any point other than enjoyment.

An electric supercar fitted with your mythical hyper-one-shaft-box-thingy would be no more or less relevant than the Zonda R is now.

[Just_a_fan]

Yeah, that would be the most aero efficient But what I meant was that the main idea in designing sport cars is performance not functionality o comfort.

Performance is the function of sports cars. That's where form follows function in that type of vehicle.

[tomislavp4]

"Form follows function" cars tend to not sell good. The previously mentioned Audi A2 is a good example of this, it had aluminium chassis which reduced weight + quite good aerodynamics if i remember correctly. It is quite efficient for a car in its class but it't didn't sell because of it's looks.

For ordinary people the looks of the product they're buying is more important than the benefits it offers them, as long as it does what it's meant to do. This is one of the reasons the ordinary cars have terrible aerodynamics.

I had a tour in the Volvo factory a few months ago and the guide explained the various parts that make their C30 more efficient, splitters, spoilers, strange wheels etc. But she also mentioned that their design team had the last word not the engineers. For example the slope of the rear window is 30 degrees, if I remember correctly, something the engineers did't like very much but the designers had the last word and went with the 30 degree slope which has terrible aerodynamics. If Volvo would've followed their engineers they would've ended with a crappy selling A2 clone.

For supercars it's not the looks that come first but the brand. Most rich people are uneducated when it comes to cars so they buy the car because of what they THINK it can do and the status it gives them, not what it actually DOES.

To illustrate this i'll take two brands from the electronics industry but i won't mention names. Brand A puts more effort in the design and feel of their products, which it then markets as something out of this planet and prices accordingly. Brand B on the other hand produces products that are more capable but lack in design and UI. The price of brand B is at least 25% lower. Which one sells better? Brand A off course! Not because of what it can do, but because people think it's the best!

I would buy the McLaren without hesitation but I think that the SLS will sell better because of the above mentioned reasons.

ps. sorry for the long post

[autogyro]

Yeah, that would be the most aero efficient But what I meant was that the main idea in designing sport cars is performance not functionality o comfort.

Performance is the function of sports cars. That's where form follows function in that type of vehicle.

Delusion is a self induced problem it seems.
Any of these fast sports cars used at the limits of their performance will achieve only one thing. A prison sentence for the driver.
There will be little use for them in the future.
The main use is as a status symbol for posing in a world where such an obsolete ideal of defined status no longer exists in any moral framework.

[Pup]

There's no doubt about it being a great car, but to me it's too generic and dull in terms of appearances. Luckily it makes up for that with what's under the skin. I can't wait to see one in person, and hopefully hear it as well.

This might be a bit difficult to xplain, but the MP4-12C is clearly an engineer's car and as such, form follows function.

I don't see it this way at all. Under the skin, yes; but apart from basic aerodynamic considerations, I think the bodywork on the MP4 is pure styling. In fact, I think it was specifically styled to compete with the Ferraris, which is probably why they hired Ferrari's designer in the first place to rework their earlier attempts.

And I'm not overly crazy about the looks either. It grows on you, and I might call it 'striking', but never 'beautiful'. The F1 was indeed beautiful, as was the original SLR. The new SLS I would call beautiful as well, though its beauty is skin deep. McLaren's SLR, on the other hand, was a pig with lipstick.

So, no, the MP4's appearance has nothing I think to do with form following function, and if anything is plucked right from the Ferrari pattern book.

[Just_a_fan]

Delusion is a self induced problem it seems.
Any of these fast sports cars used at the limits of their performance will achieve only one thing. A prison sentence for the driver.
There will be little use for them in the future.
The main use is as a status symbol for posing in a world where such an obsolete ideal of defined status no longer exists in any moral framework.

Any road car used at the limit of its performance will achieve a prison sentence. So what?

One of the big growths in the car-related world is that of track days. People get to use their sports cars as they were intended to be used.

There is little use in the future for anything around today, status symbol or otherwise (including humans). One could just as easily argue that your use of your computer to access this forum is immoral. It's a total waste of resources that could be better used elsewhere in a more "moral" way. But who defines "moral" in this context (or indeed in the context of supercars)?

We each set our own moral framework (albeit within the ultimate bounds set by the society we share). You don't like supercars? Great, I'm happy for you. However, I don't like sad old men who moan about the world around them because they no longer see a place for themselves in that world. You spend the majority of your time hereabouts telling people how their choices/preferences/desires are obsolete, immoral, crap etc. Howabout going somewhere else if it all offends you so much? I'm sure SAGA must have a site called "Everything's_rubbish;_not_like_it_used_to_be_in_our_day.com".

[RacingManiac]

I am glad I am not the only one who is annoyed by the constant negativity in autogyro's posts.....

Honestly though, if you are so frustrated by all the stuff out there, why do you still bother to watch it or care?

[andrew]

Don't worry, he's just been reading the Guardian and the Daily Mail too much!

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I would buy the McLaren without hesitation but I think that the SLS will sell better because of the above mentioned reasons.

Maybe the SLS will sell better is because of various reasons, not just marketing.
To spend £160k on a car is ridiculous im sure the man in the street will agree.
But there are many that will.

We all agree the 458, MP4-12C and SLS are competitiors as their basic price is within range of each other.
The difference is they all go about there business in very different ways. Now if somone has that intention to buy a car and use it, the Mercedes wins hands down.
Thats because of the 3 it will be the most reliable, easiest to own and it will be able to compete with the other 2 in real world driving.

I think the real loser here will be Ferrari. They used to be de facto choice for this kind of car. No longer, and long may that continue!

[marcush.]

i don´t see it completely like that.there are people who can help themselves on this planet.. and they can afford both if they wish to do so.
In terms of everyday driver ,the porsche will win this easily .
But even the porsche average mileage per year is so small the major faults will not really pop up ....maybe the Battery being down is the one that is the most unnerving as the quiscent current can be quite a problem for cars not used everydays.
i think the Mclaren will find easily its niche.and it will of course hurt Ferrari
and it will hurt lamborghini.an dit could hurt Porsche in their segment of GT2RS
just because it is so much more spectacular .

[xpensive]

I am glad I am not the only one who is annoyed by the constant negativity in autogyro's posts.....

Honestly though, if you are so frustrated by all the stuff out there, why do you still bother to watch it or care?

The problem is that members keep arguing with him, just leave him be.

[autogyro]

I am glad I am not the only one who is annoyed by the constant negativity in autogyro's posts.....

Honestly though, if you are so frustrated by all the stuff out there, why do you still bother to watch it or care?

The problem is that members keep arguing with him, just leave him be.

I have never said I hate sports cars, I have got one.
I just believe that the mind set that promotes wasteful power and performance as an indulgence is no longer acceptable thats all.
It is just a pity that the style and art today being displayed in modern car design is limited by computer generation and ends up in most cases bland and boring.
IMO the publics opinion is changing. Ignore it at your peril.

[Pup]

It is just a pity that the style and art today being displayed in modern car design is limited by computer generation and ends up in most cases bland and boring.

How do you see the design being limited exactly?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Gyro,

The Mclaren tackles the environment issue head on. It delivers the highest horsepower-to-CO2 ratio of any car on the market today with an internal combustion engine ... and that includes petrol and diesel hybrids.

So maybe you can re evaluate your gloomy outlook?

[marcush.]

tbh I feel Alias or what have you in terms of styling programme does lead itself to different shapes than taking a brush and paint .You add the feel to it solely
from visual perception on the screen whereas drawing by hand will really show your physical flow and feeling in the lines you are generating .
But we are of cause living in a world of visual excitement anyways and you will
not be able to draw up a line nobody else has already done .But using the translation or interface of a computerprogramme will inevitably put a filter in your work ...and it shows in the products ..because you will find the algorithsms
of the the programm on a Aston Martin ,Porsche and the Mclaren.
It might be a bit sad but such is life you cannot turn back time.