Ferrari F2012

[f1316]

Begs the question: how many parts do you have to add to an old car until it becomes a new car? If they completely change the sidepods to accommodate the proposed exhaust layout, is it still the F10?

I'm not at all aware of the specifics of the regulations in this area, but you would imagine that the powers-that-be would have thought of this loophole. If not- and if there is actually any benefit to gained from doing this - I think it's just as clever an interpretation of these rules as, say, interpreting the current rules to still allow you to blow exhaust fumes over the diffuser (as both are against the spirit of what was trying to be achieved).

[Hail22]

Unless I'm mistaken - I think they're allowed to test either a car that is at least 2 years old - or they have to drive the car only in a raced-before spec. ie so if they want to test unraced parts it has to be on a car at least 2 years old; and the F10 fits the bill. I don't know how accurate it would be to test anything other than a front wing there though.

Front wing, and next exhaust positioning as the F10 had top mounted exhaust ports which means they could change the side pods to the F10?

There is no rule stating that the 2 year old car cannot be modified to fit the purpose of R&D correct? So possibly new Sidepod housing, new Rear DF, Rear Wing

Also heard such a small whisper that Ferrari were talking with Boeing about using Airfoil sections on their car, now airfoils create lift? where in the blazes would you place airfoils on an F1 car?

I hate rumours I need photos or I may go gaga, I asked my friend to get a ladder and sneak some photos/videos if he can...i'm getting all antsy right about now...

[bhall]

Also heard such a small whisper that Ferrari were talking with Boeing about using Airfoil sections on their car, now airfoils create lift? where in the blazes would you place airfoils on an F1 car?

That's an early, but very strong, contender for "Far-Fetched Rumor of the Year." But, I like it. I really do.

(And for what it's worth, you'd place them with all of the other airfoils on an F1 car.)

[Hail22]

Also heard such a small whisper that Ferrari were talking with Boeing about using Airfoil sections on their car, now airfoils create lift? where in the blazes would you place airfoils on an F1 car?

That's an early, but very strong, contender for "Far-Fetched Rumor of the Year." But, I like it. I really do.

(And for what it's worth, you'd place them with all of the other airfoils on an F1 car.)

Aren't most airfoils located on the RW only?

I'm contemplating on flying to San Marino and drive to Maranello as I want to know what the hell is going on >.<

[banibhusan]

The F10 was designed with the DDD in mind right? If that's the case then they will have to change the whole rear end of the car, isn't it?

There are so many differences of the F2012 to the F10, though I am not sure how many parts would directly affect the performance of the components they are trying to test.

[fateman]

Also heard such a small whisper that Ferrari were talking with Boeing about using Airfoil sections on their car, now airfoils create lift? where in the blazes would you place airfoils on an F1 car?

And then the magician comes in place, turns the airfoil upside-down and all of the sudden it creates downforce. genius! lets hope other teams don't know it yet.

[elFranZ]

I'm a little worried about this rumor... I mean, it's full of potential complaining teams out there (ok cheating, I'm talking about RB, if confirmed they're going to say something for sure).

Then, let the "what could you test on a F10" game begin

[bhall]

Aren't most airfoils located on the RW only?

I'm contemplating on flying to San Marino and drive to Maranello as I want to know what the hell is going on >.<

Strictly speaking, there are only two airfoils on the rear wing. Front wings feature as many as five, and that's not counting the many varieties of cascade wings.

(And I'm contemplating resenting the sh*t out of you for having the ability to just drive on down to Ferrari to see what's going on for yourself. Do take pictures.)

I'm a little worried about this rumor... I mean, it's full of potential complaining teams out there (ok cheating, I'm talking about RB, if confirmed they're going to say something for sure).

What's to worry about? It's legit. Any team can do it.

It's not been an issue - until now, I guess - because it's not clear that testing a two-year-old car would benefit a current design.

[raymondu999]

The F10 was designed with the DDD in mind right? If that's the case then they will have to change the whole rear end of the car, isn't it?

That's my point. They went as far as mounting the engine tilted forward by 3.5 degrees in order to have more space for a diffuser exit; while keeping CoG low.

[elFranZ]

because it's not clear that testing a two-year-old car would benefit a current design.

That's why I'm a little worried. Imagine seeing a stronger Ferrari in Shanghai, what would other teams say? "Of course they are, they can test while we cannot" or something similar.

[bhall]

Imagine seeing a stronger Ferrari in Shanghai, what would other teams say? "Of course they are, they can test while we cannot" or something similar.

What's preventing any other team from doing this? If a team has access to a two-year-old car and a track on which to run it, they're at liberty to do so at will.

[Postmoe]

I don't know nor understand what Macca and Sauber have done, but it seems that their approach was more straight aerodynamically.

Based on other discussions of the McLaren exhaust design on this forum, I would say the consensus is that your understanding is incorrect. McLaren is making a very good 'attempt' to seal the diffuser and that Ferrari is not.

Brian

So, if my understanding is incorrect and I said I don't understand.... In fact I understand?


"Logic, always in your way". Would be a good demotivational.

[aral]

There were reports earlier this year that Mika Salo had been drafted to drive the F10 fitted with components to be evaluated for the F2012. I have no idea if such an idea is legitimate, but the idea is out there nonetheless.

Salo was called down for a Ferrari reunion, which has already taken place. He is nowhere near fit enough etc to test a car, and admitted this himself. So as for concentrated testing of new parts? Forget it, it hasn't or won't happen.

[f1316]

There were reports earlier this year that Mika Salo had been drafted to drive the F10 fitted with components to be evaluated for the F2012. I have no idea if such an idea is legitimate, but the idea is out there nonetheless.

Salo was called down for a Ferrari reunion, which has already taken place. He is nowhere near fit enough etc to test a car, and admitted this himself. So as for concentrated testing of new parts? Forget it, it hasn't or won't happen.

I don't think Salo not being able to drive the car precludes the possibiliy in the slightest - there are plenty of other people on the Ferrari payroll capable of testing an F1 car.

Nevertheless, I'd still be surprised (pleasantly) if this were happening.

[Vanja #66]

Now, that's something... Away with you, demons of front-push-rod! The power of reason compels you, the power of reason compels you!

(By demons, haven't meant the posters, just the demons that went inside their heads...)

Testing heavily modified F10 is legal, provided chassis is intact (as far as I understand), and it produces better results than a faulty CFD... If there is any, of course. In any case, it's always better to test the actual part(s) on track, than just run it trough simulation. As bhallg said, there's nothing stopping the other teams from doing the same, so any type of complaint would be unreasonable...

As for possible parts, new FW - how needed is it... Sidepods sound a lot more logical to me, especially because F10's sidepods also were slightly U-shaped as well, and exhaust is in an almost perfect position... The thing that could be problematic is that it has push-rod front, unlike F2012, a lot different airflow in that area therefore, as it has been mentioned here so many times...